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5 Level belongs to...

Poll: 5 Level belongs to... (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Your Call?

  1. The Opponents (Double) (1 votes [2.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.38%

  2. The Opponents (Pass) (10 votes [23.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.81%

  3. Us! (5S) (31 votes [73.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 73.81%

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#1 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 11:27

Both the opponents and partner are national champions, what is your call over 5♦?
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 12:02

5♠. We are in an FP when opps are obviously saving so I show my weakness by bidding now rather than next round.
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 12:06

What are you talking about? I have to contract for 11 tricks in order to say I expect to make no more than 10? That logic escapes me B-)

Pass.
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#4 User is online   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 13:45

Pass. You have less than partner expects you to have and he did not double first. It is not a forcing pass situation in my partnerships.
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#5 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 13:47

5♠ but I am in no way convinced it's correct bid. I suppose it will work often enough. Even if we don't make sufficient % of the time they will sometimes bid 6♦. The idea of pass being forcing here wouldn't even occur to me. Crazy !
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#6 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 14:54

I think pass is forcing because I can't think of a hand partner can have on this auction which he'd let them play in 5♦ undoubled. If RHO weren't passed then obviously this isn't a FP. 5♠ seems normal, no matter which round suit partner has "length" in we have a good hand for him (either ruffs or a suit). Any hand where partner has the ♥A and the ♠3 should be safe.
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 15:04

if pass is forcing then that's my bid
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#8 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 15:18

View PostFluffy, on 2011-March-28, 15:04, said:

if pass is forcing then that's my bid

If 6♠ happens to be making, then I bid that...

I don't really see how this can be a FP situation.
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 15:34

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.
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#10 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 15:52

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-March-28, 15:34, said:

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 16:10

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-March-28, 15:34, said:

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? ... having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


O.K., so is knowing that partner will not pass 5D the same as a "FP situation", making pass and pull stronger, etc? Which, of pass, 5♠, or double, with this hand, will give partner the necessary information --remembering we can't go back from 5S?
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 16:36

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-March-28, 16:10, said:

O.K., so is knowing that partner will not pass 5D the same as a "FP situation", making pass and pull stronger, etc?

Yes, if it's purely the auction that tells us that partner won't pass. Why wouldn't it be the same?

Not that it matters here, though. I have four-card support and the values I have are offensive. 5♠ looks clear.
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#13 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 17:11

The poll is wrong.

The 5 level belongs to us....but I pass :)
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#14 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 17:55

View PostPhil, on 2011-March-28, 17:11, said:

The poll is wrong.

The 5 level belongs to us....but I pass :)

The 5-level belongs to Nigel ...
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 21:35

Pass is forcing. So passing doesnt make sense to me, if u wanna defend 5♦ then DBL, if u wanna play 5♠ bid it, if you wanna turn on pd for slam pass and then lift his DBL to 5♠.

I want to play 5♠ and i am bidding it without giving hope for slam to pd.
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#16 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2011-March-28, 23:03

I think it's a clear forcing pass situation, but I also don't see how it matters. I seem to have an obvious 5♠ bid either way.
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#17 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-March-29, 06:13

If this is 5S, how do I show an A better?
How can partner guess we make 6S or 7S or just near 5S?
KJxxx side suit enough with 4-support?
I can't believe partner has S:AKxxxx H:AQx D:x C:Axx
and only jumped to 4S - not eg. Q-bid/Dbl first.
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#18 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-March-29, 06:19

I'm trying to see how to suggest any upside.
Clear 5S has little/no downside - makes on near make.
But, what if partner is going up based on 5S raise?
Take those lumps?
Expect pass to X then 5S if A added - pass and pull strong?
I think this is a slam help vs. competing problem.
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#19 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-March-29, 08:20

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-March-28, 15:34, said:

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


I disagree. It is clear that responder is saving, but OPENER may well have a decent hand. You also know pard is probably counting on a trick or two from us to make 4♠. Perhaps we have those 1-2 tricks, but we certainly don't seem have 3 to take the push to 5♠.

It is just possible that 5♦ and 4♠ both fail, in which case pass is the better bid. I would consider to have a real problem if pard dbls.
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#20 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2011-March-29, 08:49

Quote

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


I bid 5♠ fast, maybe it will make maybe they will save.
I don't see how we gain by added "precision". I want to pass with nothing, bid with something and double if I can't resist licking my chops. Color me yellow...
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