[Fluffy]

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If you bid 3♦ then

Spoiler

partner bids 3♥

If you bid 3♥ then

Spoiler

partner bids 3NT

If you bid 4♦ then

Spoiler

partner bids 5♦

What do you bid, and what hand do you expect partner to have.

[mfa1010]

3♠ splinter over 2♦? Or does it show 5♠+4♦ and a hand that forgot to overcall 1♠?

I would bid 3♥ over 2♠ and pass 3NT since I'm now terrified that west is void in hearts. Partner's bidding should usually be 6-4 but it is not guaranteed.

[Phil]

mfa1010, on 2010-November-17, 16:11, said:

3♠ splinter over 2♦? Or does it show 5♠+4♦ and a hand that forgot to overcall 1♠?

I would bid 3♥ over 2♠ and pass 3NT since I'm now terrified that west is void in hearts. Partner's bidding should usually be 6-4 but it is not guaranteed.

Since pard has shown nine cards and maybe ten in the pointeds, don't you think if anyone is short in hearts its partner? It seems wrong to pass 3N even then. They are leading a heart and unless we have 9 runners we are dead. As a matter of fact it isn't that tough to construct hands that are cold for 6♦ and not making 3N.

I do agree with 3♠, and like 3♥ otherwise. I am pulling to 3N to 4♦, just to be clear we have diamond support and not some offshape hand that decided to cue last round.

[mfa1010]

Phil, on 2010-November-17, 16:43, said:

Since pard has shown nine cards and maybe ten in the pointeds, don't you think if anyone is short in hearts its partner? It seems wrong to pass 3N even then. They are leading a heart and unless we have 9 runners we are dead. As a matter of fact it isn't that tough to construct hands that are cold for 6♦ and not making 3N.

I do agree with 3♠, and like 3♥ otherwise. I am pulling to 3N to 4♦, just to be clear we have diamond support and not some offshape hand that decided to cue last round.

Does partner's 3NT over 3♥ not show a heart stopper of his own? Could be stiff king, I guess, but otherwise...

[Phil]

mfa1010, on 2010-November-17, 16:52, said:

Does partner's 3NT over 3♥ not show a heart stopper of his own? Could be stiff king, I guess, but otherwise...

Oh yeah, good point, I was thinking we bid 3N. Multi-tasking.....

[Fluffy]

how many clubs do you expect partner to have? or more specifically, why didn't partner double 1♥?

[pooltuna]

among 4153, 4063, 4054, 4162

[nige1]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-17, 15:57, said:

If you bid 3♥ then partner bids 3NT.
What do you bid, and what hand do you expect partner to have.

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IMO
Over 2♠, 3♥ = 10, 4♦ = 9, 3♦ = 8, 3♣ = 7.
Over 3N, _P = 10, 4♥ = 8 and close up your hand , 4♣ = 7.
Partner has e.g. ♠AQxx ♥Kx ♦AJxxxx ♣x

[mikeh]

mfa1010, on 2010-November-17, 16:11, said:

3♠ splinter over 2♦? Or does it show 5♠+4♦ and a hand that forgot to overcall 1♠?

I would bid 3♥ over 2♠ and pass 3NT since I'm now terrified that west is void in hearts. Partner's bidding should usually be 6-4 but it is not guaranteed.

I agree with this...altho I have a lot of sympathy for 4♦ over 2♠. In fact, I am worried that my choice may be being influenced by the 'wire' that he would bid 3N over 3♥.

Having said that, I don't think there is any downside to 3♥ (surely no-one plays that as natural? What would we bid with KQJ10xxx in hearts? nah....we can't cater to every remote possibility.) and hearing 3N makes it clear that we have to avoid 5♦.

[mfa1010]

nige1, on 2010-November-18, 11:20, said:

Partner has e.g. ♠AQxx ♥Kx ♦AJxxxx ♣x

Too good imo. I would X then diamonds over clubs with that.

[Fluffy]

mikeh, on 2010-November-18, 11:32, said:

I agree with this...altho I have a lot of sympathy for 4♦ over 2♠. In fact, I am worried that my choice may be being influenced by the 'wire' that he would bid 3N over 3♥.

Having said that, I don't think there is any downside to 3♥ (surely no-one plays that as natural? What would we bid with KQJ10xxx in hearts? nah....we can't cater to every remote possibility.) and hearing 3N makes it clear that we have to avoid 5♦.

Hehe, I wouldn't trust my wires so much, in fact if you pick 3♦ partner will pass in a flash, since you have no further decision then I posted that partner bids 3♥ then just to misslead people who take some info they shouldn't.

I fight unathorized info with false info

[Fluffy]

mfa1010, on 2010-November-17, 16:52, said:

Does partner's 3NT over 3♥ not show a heart stopper of his own? Could be stiff king, I guess, but otherwise...

I think it doesn't, we passed 1♥ and then forced to game (or 4 level) over partner's reopening bid, we have shown better than opening values, and that is only consistent with long hearts.

[rhm]

Even if you do not play ELC in second position, I consider this mandatory in fourth.
Accordingly partner is showing in my opinion something like 7-4 in ♦ and ♠, where he is not sure that he wants to play ♠ even if we have a 4-4 fit there. With a good hand he could have started with a jump overcall (not weak in the balancing position) in ♦ or doubled followed by jump to 3♦ over the expected 2♣ response.
I now bid 4♦. Over 5♦ I pass. Partners bidding is consistent with something like ♠Kxxx,♥x,♦AJxxxxx,♣x
With 2 first round controls partner should not have bid 5♦.

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

Thx for the answers

Partner had

♠AKxx
♥-
♦AJ10xx
♣9xxx


After a heart lead we made +620 in 5♦ for 100% MPs as the 12th result. 9/12 were playing in 1♥ doubled with 1 or 2 down, one played 4♦ and another 3NT down one.

I always though that the thing about not doubling with a void was nonsense, however I cannot argue with partner's success here so I will have to rethink a bit about it next time.

[mfa1010]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-19, 19:42, said:

Partner had

♠AKxx
♥-
♦AJ10xx
♣9xxx

I think it is very bizarre to bid 3NT. Partner also has NT-bids in his bidding box if we belong there.
It deserves to hit ♠QJ, ♥xxxxx, ♦KQxx, ♣AK.

Quote

I always though that the thing about not doubling with a void was nonsense, however I cannot argue with partner's success here (...)

Right, but not quite so unlucky on his part to bid his 5-card suit with a 5440 and then find a huge fit for that suit only. I think he had a routine double.

[mfa1010]

rhm, on 2010-November-19, 04:54, said:

Even if you do not play ELC in second position, I consider this mandatory in fourth.

ELC should not be thought of as "either/or" but rather "to what extend". Sure there are die-harders out there, who would double with zero extras and plan an ELC with some very imperfect shape for a takeout double. But most sane people would consider it a flaw having to correct clubs to diamonds and require some extras for the initial double when that is the plan. The extend of that "some" is the point, and that is a style issue.

I agree that when we double in fourth seat, the auction is less likely to explode if we plan an ELC. Therefore it is sensible to lower the extras requirement somewhat for an ELC double in 4th seat.

[han]

I think that partner's 2D is idiotic.

[whereagles]

easy 4NT I think.... should make 6 most of the time unless pard has nuts overcalls