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kgr, on Aug 5 2010, 11:43 AM, said:
For info: This was another hand against Jack.
LHO had a 6c♠ and RHO 4c♥ and ♣QTxx
LHO had a 6c♠ and RHO 4c♥ and ♣QTxx
Were the clubs QT6x? I just want to make sure running the club 5 works too.
squeeze or finesse?
#21
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Posted 2010-August-05, 19:11
Were the clubs QT6x? I just want to make sure running the club 5 works too.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#22
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Posted 2010-August-06, 02:39
jdonn, on Aug 6 2010, 03:11 AM, said:
kgr, on Aug 5 2010, 11:43 AM, said:
For info: This was another hand against Jack.
LHO had a 6c♠ and RHO 4c♥ and ♣QTxx
LHO had a 6c♠ and RHO 4c♥ and ♣QTxx
Were the clubs QT6x? I just want to make sure running the club 5 works too.
QT32
#23
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Posted 2010-August-06, 09:44
MP is a curious game especially when it comes to deciding how to SAFELY try for
an overtrick like this hand. Our mathematicians have shown us that playing a top
club going back to dummy in dia and taking club finesse is roughly 58% while
playing for the squeeze is roughly 60% thus making the squeeze not only more
aesthetically pleasing but a superior LOP (or so it seems).
In a strong field where everyone knows squeeze play (like the readers of this forum
) choosing which LOP is still dependent on the sccore you need.
If you merely want average than do the squeeze since most will do that but if you
need a good score then you go against the field and cash a top club and take the finesse.
Against an average field where maybe up to 60% of field never studied squeeze play if you want average go with the finesse (what the field will do and some of them wont cash one top club first to pick up stiff club Q) but if you need a top
go for the squeeze.
This theme comes up frequently at MP and is rarely a consideration at IMPS. This
hand at IMPS go for the squeeze even though its only 2% better (assuming strong defense) casinos make vast fortunes on that mere 2% why not you. Plus winning an uptrick on a finesse gets a shrug while winning it with a squeeze warrants at least a momentary self pat on the back and we can all use those.
an overtrick like this hand. Our mathematicians have shown us that playing a top
club going back to dummy in dia and taking club finesse is roughly 58% while
playing for the squeeze is roughly 60% thus making the squeeze not only more
aesthetically pleasing but a superior LOP (or so it seems).
In a strong field where everyone knows squeeze play (like the readers of this forum
) choosing which LOP is still dependent on the sccore you need.If you merely want average than do the squeeze since most will do that but if you
need a good score then you go against the field and cash a top club and take the finesse.
Against an average field where maybe up to 60% of field never studied squeeze play if you want average go with the finesse (what the field will do and some of them wont cash one top club first to pick up stiff club Q) but if you need a top
go for the squeeze.
This theme comes up frequently at MP and is rarely a consideration at IMPS. This
hand at IMPS go for the squeeze even though its only 2% better (assuming strong defense) casinos make vast fortunes on that mere 2% why not you. Plus winning an uptrick on a finesse gets a shrug while winning it with a squeeze warrants at least a momentary self pat on the back and we can all use those.
#24
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Posted 2010-August-06, 10:40
gszeszycki, on Aug 6 2010, 10:44 AM, said:
MP is a curious game especially when it comes to deciding how to SAFELY try for
an overtrick like this hand. Our mathematicians have shown us that playing a top
club going back to dummy in dia and taking club finesse is roughly 58% while
playing for the squeeze is roughly 60% thus making the squeeze not only more
aesthetically pleasing but a superior LOP (or so it seems).
In a strong field where everyone knows squeeze play (like the readers of this forum ) choosing which LOP is still dependent on the sccore you need.
If you merely want average than do the squeeze since most will do that but if you
need a good score then you go against the field and cash a top club and take the finesse.
Against an average field where maybe up to 60% of field never studied squeeze play if you want average go with the finesse (what the field will do and some of them wont cash one top club first to pick up stiff club Q) but if you need a top
go for the squeeze.
This theme comes up frequently at MP and is rarely a consideration at IMPS. This
hand at IMPS go for the squeeze even though its only 2% better (assuming strong defense) casinos make vast fortunes on that mere 2% why not you. Plus winning an uptrick on a finesse gets a shrug while winning it with a squeeze warrants at least a momentary self pat on the back and we can all use those.
an overtrick like this hand. Our mathematicians have shown us that playing a top
club going back to dummy in dia and taking club finesse is roughly 58% while
playing for the squeeze is roughly 60% thus making the squeeze not only more
aesthetically pleasing but a superior LOP (or so it seems).
In a strong field where everyone knows squeeze play (like the readers of this forum
) choosing which LOP is still dependent on the sccore you need.If you merely want average than do the squeeze since most will do that but if you
need a good score then you go against the field and cash a top club and take the finesse.
Against an average field where maybe up to 60% of field never studied squeeze play if you want average go with the finesse (what the field will do and some of them wont cash one top club first to pick up stiff club Q) but if you need a top
go for the squeeze.
This theme comes up frequently at MP and is rarely a consideration at IMPS. This
hand at IMPS go for the squeeze even though its only 2% better (assuming strong defense) casinos make vast fortunes on that mere 2% why not you. Plus winning an uptrick on a finesse gets a shrug while winning it with a squeeze warrants at least a momentary self pat on the back and we can all use those.
Actually the 58% number was based on going all out for the overtrick and risking the contract. [Mea culpa, I did not count tricks when I looked at the problem]. Safely taking the finesse is only about 53%. The difference is a large premium to pay on your matchpoint insurance.
This does invalidate your point when the percentages are closer or if you consider 7% a reasonable premium to pay.
#25
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Posted 2010-August-10, 06:47
I don't know about all these numbers, but it really comes down to:
♣Qxx/Qxxx onside (with 0-3 hearts with the club length, and no JT9♥)
vs.
♣Qx (and any other shape) + Qxx (with 4+ hearts, and no JT9♥ with his partner) offside.
All the other cases, clubs are 5-0 (where you are either laydown or forced to take the squeeze), 4-1 offside (forced into squeeze), 4-1 queen dropping (laydown) or club length onside with heart length (both lines work).
And of the two situations where it matters, the second is clearly more likely.
What is all this talk about risking the contract and going all-out for the overtrick? My line is perfect!
♣Qxx/Qxxx onside (with 0-3 hearts with the club length, and no JT9♥)
vs.
♣Qx (and any other shape) + Qxx (with 4+ hearts, and no JT9♥ with his partner) offside.
All the other cases, clubs are 5-0 (where you are either laydown or forced to take the squeeze), 4-1 offside (forced into squeeze), 4-1 queen dropping (laydown) or club length onside with heart length (both lines work).
And of the two situations where it matters, the second is clearly more likely.
What is all this talk about risking the contract and going all-out for the overtrick? My line is perfect!