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8-7-9 A Majors Headache

#1 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:04

Scoring: IMP

1♣ 1♦*
1♥** 1♠***
2♣**** 3♦*****
3 NT


1♣ is Precision (16+ HCP, any distribution)
*- Fewer than 3 Controls [A=2, K=1]
**- Total Controls?
***- 0-2
****- Club Suit, 16-19 HCP
*****- 4-3-3-3 Distribution, no 4 card Major, 9-12 HCP

QUESTION: Is 3NT cold against any defense after the lead of a small CLUB ?

If so, how do you play the first 5 tricks? (If WEST ever wins a trick, they return a small HEART. if EAST ever wins a trick, they return a small spade.)

(nigel - you should love this one! )
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:10

Seems too easy :)

Just play 3 rounds of ♣ (4 if they break 4-0) ending in dummy and play ♦K. Whoever gets on lead will bring a trick. LHO may lead a ♥, I'll cover and let RHO win. He'll bring my 9th trick now.
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#3 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:11

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:10 AM, said:

Seems too easy :)

Just play 3 rounds of ♣ (4 if they break 4-0) ending in dummy and play ♦K.  Whoever gets on lead will bring a trick.  LHO may lead a ♥, I'll cover and let RHO win.  He'll bring my 9th trick now.

Um......what do you discard on the K♦?

Hmmmmmmmmm?
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#4 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:11

PFormaini, on Feb 16 2010, 10:11 AM, said:

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:10 AM, said:

Seems too easy :)

Just play 3 rounds of ♣ (4 if they break 4-0) ending in dummy and play ♦K.  Whoever gets on lead will bring a trick.  LHO may lead a ♥, I'll cover and let RHO win.  He'll bring my 9th trick now.

Um......what do you discrd on the K♦?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

small ♥
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#5 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:13

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

PFormaini, on Feb 16 2010, 10:11 AM, said:

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:10 AM, said:

Seems too easy :)

Just play 3 rounds of ♣ (4 if they break 4-0) ending in dummy and play ♦K.  Whoever gets on lead will bring a trick.  LHO may lead a ♥, I'll cover and let RHO win.  He'll bring my 9th trick now.

Um......what do you discrd on the K♦?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

small ♥

How tragic. WEST wins the Ace of diamonds and shifts to a small HEART. EAST wins whichever honor you play from dummy and returns a small HEART, WEST winning and leading a 3rd heart..

No entry to dummy. No 9th trick.

Keep tryin. :P

EDIT: Sorry for the other defense - there are about a dozen variations, depending on what you pitch from the South hand. :P
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:14

PFormaini, on Feb 16 2010, 10:13 AM, said:

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

PFormaini, on Feb 16 2010, 10:11 AM, said:

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:10 AM, said:

Seems too easy :)

Just play 3 rounds of ♣ (4 if they break 4-0) ending in dummy and play ♦K.  Whoever gets on lead will bring a trick.  LHO may lead a ♥, I'll cover and let RHO win.  He'll bring my 9th trick now.

Um......what do you discrd on the K♦?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

small ♥

How tragic. WEST wins the Ace of diamonds and shifts to a small HEART. EAST wins whichever honor you play from dummy and returns a small SPADE.

No entry to dummy. No 9th trick.

Keep tryin. :P

I have ♠Jxx in dummy and ♠AKxx in my hand, RHO leads one, I play low, ♠J becomes my entry... I still have ♥A as control.

I can even safely discard a ♣, just in case LHO has ♥K and RHO has ♥J...

EDIT: If I discard a ♣, LHO can duck :P
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#7 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:17

PFormaini, on Feb 16 2010, 04:13 AM, said:

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

PFormaini, on Feb 16 2010, 10:11 AM, said:

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:10 AM, said:

Seems too easy :)

Just play 3 rounds of ♣ (4 if they break 4-0) ending in dummy and play ♦K.  Whoever gets on lead will bring a trick.  LHO may lead a ♥, I'll cover and let RHO win.  He'll bring my 9th trick now.

Um......what do you discrd on the K♦?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

small ♥

How tragic. WEST wins the Ace of diamonds and shifts to a small HEART. EAST wins whichever honor you play from dummy and returns a small HEART, WEST winning and leading a 3rd heart..

No entry to dummy. No 9th trick.

Keep tryin. :P

EDIT: Sorry for the other defense - there are about a dozen variations, depending on what you pitch from the South hand. :P

Sorry - I corrected the defnse for that variation. My bad.

See above.

WEST leads a small HEART. EAST wins whichever honor you play and returns a small HEART. WEST wins and plays a 3rd round, which you must win in your hand.

No dummy entry. (EAST will hold the SPade QUEEN in this variation).

No dummy entry.
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:20

Ok I think I found it!

Play 3 rounds of ♣ ending in dummy. Discard ♣ on ♦K. If it holds, play ♦Q and discard your other ♣. If West ducked twice, my 4th ♣ in dummy is high and I have 9 tricks.

Doesn't work if ♣s are 4-0, so not EVERY defense... :)
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#9 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:22

Free, on Feb 16 2010, 04:20 AM, said:

Ok I think I found it!

Play 3 rounds of ♣ ending in dummy. Discard ♣ on ♦K. If it holds, play ♦Q and discard your other ♣. If West ducked twice, my 4th ♣ in dummy is high and I have 9 tricks. Doesn't work if ♣s are 4-0...

YOU GOT IT!!!!!

The elegant line is to play 3 rounds of Clubs, saving the ACE and QUEEN, then DISCARD THE CLUB ACE on the K♦ :)

The key to the hand is that EACH OF YOUR 4TH SMALL MAJOR SUIT CARDS is vital to the hand. You need them in order to both FORCE a later dummy entry and to use to get there in one suit or the other.

The real card of no use to you is the 5th round CLUB winner in your hand. It has to be sacrificed in order to make certain you can win the TWO extra diamond tricks in dummy.

Neat, eh?

Thanks to Nick Straguzzi. This is from his 'Chthonic' series in BRIDGE WORLD magazine - April 1995.
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#10 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 03:24

And Yes - I should have stipulate that both defenders follow to the small CLUB lead. :)
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 04:19

or you could just as well edit the original post :)
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#12 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-16, 09:57

Fluffy, on Feb 16 2010, 05:19 AM, said:

or you could just as well edit the original post B)

NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!! :ph34r:
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#13 User is offline   titi38 

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Posted 2010-February-17, 07:54

Hi,

It seems to me that we can play 3 rounds of ♣ in hand, keeping the king as entry, and a small ♥ to the 10. Now, East has to give me the 9th trick (at least).
What's wrong with this line?

Regards,
TS
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#14 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2010-February-17, 08:02

I have a question about the explanation of the bidding.

The 1♦ response showed less than 3 controls. To my way of thinking, that means 0-2 controls.

The 1♥ bid asked for a clarification. The 1♠ bid showed 0-2 controls.

Seems like a waste of two bids, since you already had that information.

I assume that something in the explanation is not correct.
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#15 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-18, 07:51

titi38, on Feb 17 2010, 08:54 AM, said:

Hi,

It seems to me that we can play 3 rounds of ♣ in hand, keeping the king as entry, and a small ♥ to the 10. Now, East has to give me the 9th trick (at least).
What's wrong with this line?

Regards,
TS

He wins whichever heart honor you play and returns a small Spade.

You win and lead to the other heart honor. East wins it and returns a second spade.

No entry to dummy. And when WEST wins the 4th round of hearts (East having started with K-J tight), he cashes 2 rounds of spades.

Down one.
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#16 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-18, 07:52

ArtK78, on Feb 17 2010, 09:02 AM, said:

I have a question about the explanation of the bidding.

The 1♦ response showed less than 3 controls. To my way of thinking, that means 0-2 controls.

The 1♥ bid asked for a clarification. The 1♠ bid showed 0-2 controls.

Seems like a waste of two bids, since you already had that information.

I assume that something in the explanation is not correct.

Yes. It should be "2 controls'. (We use the LOWEST response to show the STRONGEST possible holding - leaving more bidding room for the hands with higher aspirations.
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#17 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-18, 08:21

PFormaini, on Feb 18 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

titi38, on Feb 17 2010, 08:54 AM, said:

Hi,

It seems to me that we can play 3 rounds of  ♣ in hand, keeping the king as entry, and a small ♥ to the 10. Now, East has to give me the 9th trick (at least).
What's wrong with this line?

Regards,
TS

He wins whichever heart honor you play and returns a small Spade.

You win and lead to the other heart honor. East wins it and returns a second spade.

No entry to dummy. And when WEST wins the 4th round of hearts (East having started with K-J tight), he cashes 2 rounds of spades.

Down one.

You still have ♥A, so RHO won't win the 2nd ♥, ♠J will be your 9th trick.
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#18 User is offline   PFormaini 

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Posted 2010-February-18, 08:26

Free, on Feb 18 2010, 09:21 AM, said:

PFormaini, on Feb 18 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

titi38, on Feb 17 2010, 08:54 AM, said:

Hi,

It seems to me that we can play 3 rounds of  ♣ in hand, keeping the king as entry, and a small ♥ to the 10. Now, East has to give me the 9th trick (at least).
What's wrong with this line?

Regards,
TS

He wins whichever heart honor you play and returns a small Spade.

You win and lead to the other heart honor. East wins it and returns a second spade.

No entry to dummy. And when WEST wins the 4th round of hearts (East having started with K-J tight), he cashes 2 rounds of spades.

Down one.

You still have ♥A, so RHO won't win the 2nd ♥, ♠J will be your 9th trick.

Who cares?

You have to lead a SMALL heart the second time to try to force entry. But it isn't gonna happen. If you lead the ACE, then East will turn up with KJxx - and again, will cash the setting tricks when he gets in.

And if you let the first spade from East slide to West, he returns a HEART. East covers dummy's play and forces your Ace.

Now - since you have not yet driven out the DIAMOND ACE, when you lead a diamond, EAST wins and cashes 2 established hearts.

You see - failing to establish your diamond trick has consequences. :)

3 rounds of CLUBS and then a HEART is not good enough, since any continuation can be defeated if the cards lie badly.
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#19 User is offline   titi38 

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Posted 2010-February-18, 10:12

titi38, on Feb 17 2010, 08:54 AM, said:

Hi,

It seems to me that we can play 3 rounds of  ♣ in hand, keeping the king as entry, and a small ♥ to the 10. Now, East has to give me the 9th trick (at least).
What's wrong with this line?

Regards,
TS


> He wins whichever heart honor you play and returns a small Spade.
> You win and lead to the other heart honor.

No, i don't win. I play a small ♠ from my hand. Now, if west play the Queen, the Jack of ♠ is my 9th trick. And if West play small, the Jack of ♠ is also my 9th trick. In either case, i have no entry problem. For example, suppose West win the ♠ switch with the Queen and lead another ♥. I win with the Ace, play a small ♠ to the J (or ♣ to the K ) and after this i return in hand with my third ♠ (or K of ♣ to the Ace) and i'm OK : 3♠, 5♣ and 1 ♥.


Regards,
TS

PS : apologies if i'm not clear because of my english but i really don't see the problem with this line of play.
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#20 User is offline   Old York 

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Posted 2010-February-18, 11:05

"If EAST ever wins a trick, they return a small spade"

"3 rounds of CLUBS and then a HEART is not good enough, since any continuation can be defeated if the cards lie badly"


After cashing 3 clubs in hand, lead Heart to Queen or Ten, East is endplayed in 3 suits after winning ♥King or ♥Jack and must give dummy the 9th trick

3NT by North seems to be a better contract. Any non-club lead gives 9 or ten tricks (maybe 11)

1♣-3NT ;)

Tony
Hanging on in quiet desperation, is the English way (Pink Floyd)
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