[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

P (P) 1N (2♥)
2♠ (P) 3♠ (P)
?

---

[aguahombre]

If MY partner did the raising, yes. She will have a 17 count that grew, and no wasted heart cards.

p.s., hope this post doesn't get sidetracked with "stolen bid" stuff, because it is not relevent to the question, IMHO. OP has asked, based on her agreements. Opener was not invited, when surely a Leben was available to do so, and opener bid 3S anyway.

[bid_em_up]

Assuming that I am playing Leb, then this is a clear raise to 4S.

The 2S bid could have been made originally on something as bad as:

K10xxxx x xxxx xx

or possibly worse, and yet partner still raised to three.

This hand is much better than the example given so 4♠ should certainly have reasonable chances of making.

[jillybean]

no Leb

[Phil]

Pard likes her hand. I like mine.

4♠

[Phil]

bid_em_up, on Sep 4 2009, 11:13 AM, said:

The 2S bid could have been made originally on something as bad as:

K10xxxx x xxxx xx

LOL

[pooltuna]

jillybean, on Sep 4 2009, 10:55 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

P (P) 1N (2♥)
2♠ (P) 3♠ (P)
?

---

Partner should know that 2♠ was just competitive. Raising is invitational and given your hand an easy accept.

[andy_h]

Definitely. I pretty much have an invitational hand myself provided that we have a fit and when partner tells me so (with a good 16/17 count) I am definitely pushing onto game.

[nigel_k]

At IMPS this is an obvious 4♠.

At matchpoints it's not so clear. You are going to get forced so will have work to do any time partner does not have four trumps and will be really struggling on a 4-1 break. I guess we don't know when partner would bid 3♥ instead of 3♠.

You have to worry about going against the field and getting a bottom when superior cardplay means you have above average expectation in 3♠ as the field probably won't bid game. But some may collect 200 against heart contracts.

Probably I would still bid 4♠ but would not be as confident as the others.

[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

P (P) 1N (2♥)
2♠ (P) 3♠ (P)
4♠

---

I liked my hand so bid game.

I got a ♥ lead then I led small ♠ to my KJ,
East popped up with the Ace and continued with ♥K!

I should have made it from here, but didnt, the field were in 3.

[quiddity]

The moral of this story is that you need to find a better game. And I'm not talking about 3NT.

[jillybean]

quiddity, on Sep 4 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

The moral of this story is that you need to find a better game. And I'm not talking about 3NT.

I think you mean I need to improve my game.

[aguahombre]

i missed the part about you playing weak notrump. even that hand, reversing pards majors, is why I would bid 4 on the auction. Of course, playing strong nt, my pard would not bid 3S and probably wouldnt open 1NT. In fact, this whole string no longer makes any sense. I just looked at the post again and I guess weak notrumps are just assumed where you play.

[jillybean]

aguahombre, on Sep 4 2009, 05:19 PM, said:

i missed the part about you playing weak notrump. even that hand, reversing pards majors, is why I would bid 4 on the auction.  Of course, playing strong nt, my pard would not bid 3S and probably wouldnt open 1NT. In fact, this whole string no longer makes any sense.  I just looked at the post again and I guess weak notrumps are just assumed where you play.

No, we play 15-17 NT, standard. 3 Aces and a Q look a lot like a nt opening.

[gwnn]

north bid like an idiot.

(sorry I don't have a more polite or eloquent way of putting this)

[655321]

nigel_k, on Sep 4 2009, 06:59 PM, said:

You are going to get forced so will have work to do any time partner does not have four trumps and will be really struggling on a 4-1 break. I guess we don't know when partner would bid 3♥ instead of 3♠.

2♠ is not invitational. Therefore IMO there are no 3 card holdings that should be raising spades here. The 3♠ bid functions in exactly the same way as a superaccept, and, just like a superaccept, should always have 4 card support.

[MattieShoe]

I don't understand north's bidding at all. Lying a point to open 1NT, okay fine. He has NT distribution and at least an honor in every suit, and the shorter ones stopped. But then he has to assume that his partner just said 2♠ with the expectation of 16 HCP. Inviting to game after lying about your hand... well, it just seems like a recipe for disaster. Especially while vulnerable, without even a decent honor in the trump suit... Wait, what?

I have a related question though...

1. What would 3♠ by south instead of 2♠ indicate? I would have interpreted 3♠ as invitation to game in 3NT or 4♠. If my interpretation is correct, then the fact that his partner didn't bid 3♠ should have told him to zip it right there, especially since he lied to open 1NT in the first place.

[aguahombre]

north started with a good 14, which turned into a great 12 on the first round of bidding.....the sky is just a different color in that world

[nigel_k]

I'm don't know what North was doing either but am pretty sure Larry Cohen is to blame.
The 1NT upgrade is fine but should have passed after that. If partner plays that an immediate jump to 3 is any old garbage with 4 trumps and real superaccepts have to do something else then they should have told you about that.

I don't agree with 655321 that you need four trumps for a superaccept. It's a function of playing strength and a 5332 can be as good as a 4432 despite one less trump.

It looks like 4♠ is cold if you ruff, then cross to ♦A and finesse trumps.

The fact that you are able to make 10 tricks only with good play underlines my point about going against the field. In 3 you get either 40% or 90% depending on play. In 4 you get either 5% or 95% on the same play.

[the hog]

Kathryn, partner doesn't have a 1NT opening, (15-17), and definitely doesn't have a raise to 3S.