[Yzerman]

*  This is GOOD STUFF *

For years I have played RKC asking bids but never studied all of the bids.  Then recently I replied to a post in the Advanced section titled "Queen Ask" - please read.

To make a long story short, I found a GREAT website that details Kantors RKC structure.  It is a little overwhelming at first (20 chapters/sections), but having played most of it, I will say that it is logical and somewhat natural.  Here is the link to the Website.

http://www.kantarbridge.com/rkb.htm

Personally I would like to master this RKC structure and am looking for person(s) that would like to do the same.  Here are some ideas I had;

1) Practice with contrainsts in partnership bidding
2) If enough people, have scheduled "chat" sessions

If you are interested you can leave me a message here, at BBO (leave message for), or send me an email (michael_lucy@hotmail.com).

[inquiry]

Count me in...

I have seen this theory of strong versus weak hand responses before. With most partners, I had simplified the responses to playing 14,03 when asking with a major suit fit, and 03/14 with minor fit... but kantar's structure is obviously superior if your partner is as up to it as you are....

[Yzerman]

For anyone that may be interested, inquiry and myself will be practicing in the partnership bidding room at the following time;

Friday, April 4th @ 5:00 pm EST

Please feel free to drop in and watch, participate, ask questions or just to satisfy some curiosity.  Use the hyperlink in the first post of this thread for RKC notes.

* If there is enough curiosity/participation, inquiry (and myself - with him leading theway) has offered to put together some material to facilitate learning.

[inquiry]

Since this thread deals with Kantar Roman Keycard blackwood... here is a hand from yesterday.

S-K
H-532
D-AKQT842
C-A5

S-AJT5432
H-AKJ
D-97
C-8

Bidding at the table....
N....E
1D 1S
3N 6D
Pass

Obviously 7D is ideal. 6D loses imps to those in 6NT. Question. Would 4H instead of 6D be Kantar Roman KEY CARD agreement for diamonds like similar auctions where agreement minor suit agreement is at 3 level?  Would Kantar system after the solid suit showing rebid of 3NT assume possession of the trump queen so the inquiry (hehehe) after opener shows 3 controls skip right past the request for the trump queen and go to Specific Suit Asking Bid? I could see perhaps....

1D-1S
3N-4H   (4H= K RKCB)
4S-4N   (4S = 3 KEY CARDS) 4N=specific king ask
5S-7D   (5S = king of SPADES)

... or would 4NT be passable? Would 5C over 4S ask for trump queen instead (in which case response would be 5S showing trump queen and spade King), or would 5C be specific asking bid in clubs?  

Maybe I missed it, but I can't find this particular hand type (jump to 3NT showing solid suit) covered in kantar voluminous notes.  Any thoughts?

[inquiry]

Another hand for Kantar Roman KeyCARD ask. With hand A,  7S is a fairly good contract, with hand B, the grand slam requires some luck in both black suits (3-3 clubs or the ability to ruff two clubs in dummy and still safely pull trumps). How would Kantar's RKB bid these hands. To keep it simple, lets assume that a) you open 2C, responder shows balanced hand and some values with 2NT, and c) you find your spade fit at the three level with stayman.

2C  2N
3C  3S

Responder A            Responder B
S-KQ84...................S-KQ84
H-K982...................H-K982
D-762.....................D-Q62
C-Q4.......................C-84

S-AT73
H-A
D-AKT
C-AKT73

PLEASE LIMIT RESPONSES TO THE USE OF KANTAR RKCB, you can change the sequence before starting RKCB if you like, but show how you think kantar's specific king asking or specific suit asking bids might be successfully used. A particular problem is separating Qx from xx. For with Qx the grand slam is a much better proposition.

[Gerardo]

4C                                        4H (1st or 2nd round)
4NT (1430)                          5C (1 KC)
5D (Q ask)                           5NT (Have Q, no (t shown) K, extras)
6C (SSA in C)                       6D (CQ or C doubleton)
6S (signing off after a positive response?)
                               With Q: 7S, with doubleton: pass

Though probably hand with doubleton have no extras, and bids 6S over 5D.

[inquiry]

Quote

4C                                        4H (1st or 2nd round)
4NT (1430)                          5C (1 KC)
5D (Q ask)                           5NT (Have Q, no (t shown) K, extras)
6C (SSA in C)                       6D (CQ or C doubleton)
6S (signing off after a positive response?)
                               With Q: 7S, with doubleton: pass

Though probably hand with doubleton have no extras, and bids 6S over 5D.

Thanks for the reply Gerardo! I believe your solution to the which QUEEN question is right. I would have bid it slightly different before the 6C ask, but the same immediately afterwards. The initial auction I envisioned (but which has two a problem as we will see) was....

2C  2N
3C  3S
4N  5C     ***5C = 1KC
5D  5H     ***5D = Queen ask, 5H = HK and SQ
6C  6D     ***6C = SSA, 6D = Qx(x) or xx  
?          

Now the interpretation of 6S would not be so clear. What if partner was looking for the club KQx or Kx? If interested in just club King could have bid 5NT over 5H as specific king ask. So your 4C bid, getting a 4H cue bid worked well (as long as not last train to clarksville). The second problem in the auction I had initially envisioned was would 4NT be RKCB or regular blackwood or quantatative without a spade fit?

There is one bid here that should be unused, and that would be a 4Hs. So I thought that 4H's might be recruited as a kind of pre-kickback BLACKWOOE, Any merit is 4Hs on this auction being Blackwood (similar to the use of 4S over a 3H response to stayman as kickback blackwood)?

2C  2NT
3C  3S
4H  4S            4H = logically not to play, RKCB? 4S = 1 or 4
4N  5H            4NT queen ask. 5H = SQ+HK, no DK, no CK
6C  6D            6C = SSA, 6D = Qx(x) or xx
6S  7S  (A) and PASS (

This raises a second question, is 4NT the relay over the 4S response asking for the trump queen (I think it should be).

It is clear to me that to ask in a suit where the KING can not be held, and then bid 6 when hear partner holds the "QUEEN" or a doubleton (most he could have), is asking for 7 with the QUEEN in the asked suit or extra trump legnth. Also, Gerardo solution works fine as long as a) the heart cue-bid can not show shortness (this time due to 2NT response, or if by agreement first cue bid is always A or K not shortness), and partner will show "extra" with a 5NT bid over the queen ask when that extra is not a long trump or a queen in an unbid suit (I would not show extra with this particular hand myself, but with both queens or a QJ in either  minor I would).

It should be noted that Gerardo simplier auction getting partner to deny a club king (here by first cue-bidding the only outside king, then using the no additional kings but extra value 5NT response) allowed the easy grandslam explore.

QUESTIONS.  
1) What would 4NT mean immediatley after 3S or 3H response?
2) Is it a good idea to initiate a cue-bidding sequence with a two suiter to get partner to deny a control in one of your suits so you can eventually use the SSA bid to investigate specific third round controls (I think the answer is obviously yes)
3) Despite Kantar's dislike for kickback, do you ever use 4S as RKCB with a heart fit? And if so, what rules do you apply to use it... .would 2N-3C// 3H-4S be kickback since 4N is clearly quantatitive?

[Yzerman]

Ben or anyone else feel like having another RKC partnership bidding practice session?

Let me know, please give me date and time.  For the time being I would like to perhaps do something on Thursday evening (EST).

[inquiry]

I am up for it... but this Thursday is not going to be real good for me. Friday or Saturday would be much better perhaps. I will get back to you tomorrow on some possible times by message here, and when we can agree, you can post the date and time here.

ben