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Preempt?

Poll: Preempt? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Preempt?

  1. Yes (15 votes [51.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.72%

  2. No (14 votes [48.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.28%

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#21 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-June-20, 12:07

gnasher, on Jun 20 2008, 11:50 AM, said:

Using 3♥ as a preempt has a cost: we're not using it for constructive purposes. If we don't use it enough to get value for money, we should switch to intermediate jump overcalls.

This logic does not follow, even if 1 is factual:

1) If we don't bid 3H on this hand, our frequency is too low and intermediate jump overcalls are better.

2) Therefore we should bid 3H with this hand.

If the question was "should we change our methods" I like your reasoning, but since the question is "should we preempt with this hand" I don't like your reasoning.

To me it is a deathwish to bid 3H with this hand at this vulnerability, and you do not gain often enough to compensate for it so passing is better than bidding 3H. Obviously you and others might disagree. I am happy to make a weak jump overcall with x AQJTxxx Jxxx x or whatever, and I am happy to play intermediate jump overcalls vulnerable, but with this hand playing weak jump overcalls I think it is way better to pass.
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#22 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-June-20, 13:03

Apollo81, on Jun 20 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

How many of the people who arent preempting would do it if a small heart were instead the ♥9

I voted to preempt, but I think it is close.

If the hand contained the 9♥, I would find preempting clearcut.
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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

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#23 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-June-20, 15:25

Scoring: IMP

I passed, my LHO chose to pass (!!!), and we got to 4♥ after West chose not to sacrifice.

The other table took the good save in 4♠, so we won some IMPs.
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#24 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-20, 15:42

helene_t, on Jun 20 2008, 11:59 AM, said:

gnasher, on Jun 20 2008, 05:50 PM, said:

If we don't use it enough to get value for money, we should switch to intermediate jump overcalls.

I don't get intermediate jump overcalls at the 3 level. A non-jump overcall at the 2-level already shows those values. I suppose strong jump overcalls would be handy when they came up.

An intermediate jump overcall does not show the same values as a single overcall. Sure, the single overcall of 2♥ shows a better hand than a minimum 1♥ overcall of a minor opening. So, a 3♥ intermediate also shows a better hand than a 2♥ intermediate over a minor opening. The difference is about the same. Additionally, double...♥ shows a better hand over 1♠ than over 1minor.
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#25 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2008-June-20, 17:04

rogerclee, on Jun 20 2008, 02:00 AM, said:

IMPs, Red vs White, Second Seat ♠Kx ♥QJT7532 ♦x ♣Jxx
(1♠) - ?

IMO _P = 10, 3♥ = 9
3♥ is OK if opponents are better than you or your team is in desperate straits.
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#26 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-June-20, 18:00

Jlall, on Jun 20 2008, 07:07 PM, said:

gnasher, on Jun 20 2008, 11:50 AM, said:

Using 3♥ as a preempt has a cost: we're not using it for constructive purposes.  If we don't use it enough to get value for money, we should switch to intermediate jump overcalls.

This logic does not follow, even if 1 is factual:

1) If we don't bid 3H on this hand, our frequency is too low and intermediate jump overcalls are better.

2) Therefore we should bid 3H with this hand.

That would, indeed, be questionable logic. What I meant was:

(a) I think this is a 3♥ bid.

and, independently

(b) If you play 3♥ as weak, but need more playing strength that this, there are better uses for a 3♥ bid.

Edit: Having reread my original post, I agree that it might have seemed that I had my carts and horses mixed up.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2008-June-20, 18:02

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#27 User is offline   sathyab 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 03:01

rogerclee, on Jun 20 2008, 04:25 PM, said:

Dealer: East
Vul: N/S
Scoring: IMP
♠ 52
♥ AK
♦ AT974
♣ KT52
♠ T976
♥ 986
♦ Q6
♣ Q986
♠ AQJ83
♥ 4
♦ KJ852
♣ A7
♠ K4
♥ QJT7532
♦ 3
♣ J43
 

I passed, my LHO chose to pass (!!!), and we got to 4♥ after West chose not to sacrifice.

The other table took the good save in 4♠, so we won some IMPs.

Passing seems conservative. Even over 2s, your partner has a difficult bid. But if opponents were playing Bergen and bid 3s, he'd have an impossible bid. When opponents play Bergen you have to constantly practice passing in tempo with hands that you would otherwise have acted. It's especially painful if you know that your teammates don't play Bergen, for then you know that the auction there will be different from what's going to transpire at your table.

When it goes 3s, a strained pass from your pd and then 4s on your right, you're completely and totally out of the auction.
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