[Poky]

1♣ pass 1♦ pass
1♥ 1NT pass ??

Expert partner. MP. All vul.

What do you expect from partner's 1NT?

What do you bid with 4441 and 5 HCP?

[Trinidad]

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

[whereagles]

Poky, on Feb 11 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

1. What do you expect from partner's 1NT?

2. What do you bid with 4441 and 5 HCP?

1. I got now clue... minors, I guess.

2. 2♦

[Cascade]

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 06:35 AM, said:

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

Couldn't he double to show that?

[kfay]

Cascade, on Feb 11 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 06:35 AM, said:

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

Couldn't he double to show that?

I'm going with a synthesis of these two thoughts.

♣ + ♥ 2=4=2=5 opening values with a diamond guard.

But really I have no clue.

[Cascade]

kfay, on Feb 12 2008, 08:10 AM, said:

But really I have no clue.

Me neither why do partner's do this?

[Edmunte1]

This could be played either:

- 1(43)5 hand and 15+18 or
- (233)5 hand 13-14 good hand for NT.
I prefer the former.

[mike777]

Poky, on Feb 11 2008, 12:13 PM, said:

1♣ pass 1♦ pass
1♥ 1NT pass ??

Expert partner. MP. All vul.

What do you expect from partner's 1NT?

What do you bid with 4441 and 5 HCP?

have no idea, I pass, we are not doubled yet.

[Poky]

Cascade, on Feb 11 2008, 08:07 PM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 06:35 AM, said:

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

Couldn't he double to show that?

Double probably shows some 4135, 4144 or 4225 pattern.

The hand in question was:
♠AQTx
♥x
♦xx
♣AKQxxx

[Gerben42]

Quote

why do partner's do this?

Please don't use an apostrophe there, it hurts my eyes. Thanks

Otherwise I agree

Probably a better shap than Dbl, the actual hand fits the bill.

[whereagles]

pard feels like giving you a headache, huh? Why can't he just dbl 1♥?

[Trinidad]

Cascade, on Feb 11 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 06:35 AM, said:

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

Couldn't he double to show that?

Yes, he could double too, but than he would also be promising something in diamonds (4144, 4135). 1NT would show typically 4126, 4216 or a 4225 with good clubs.

As to the question 'Why do partners do this?': If you won't be able to figure out what 1NT means, partner shouldn't bid it. Therefore, partner was confident that you would be able to reason logically what 1NT meant. Thank partner for having confidence in your bridge ability.

Rik

[gwnn]

I agree with the question mark.

[kfay]

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 11 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 06:35 AM, said:

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

Couldn't he double to show that?

Yes, he could double too, but than he would also be promising something in diamonds (4144, 4135).

Disagree with this.

If partner has something in everything but hearts then he's got a bid over 1♣. He's got to reason out what THAT bid is.

[cherdano]

kfay, on Feb 12 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 11 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 06:35 AM, said:

I would expect an opening with 4 spades and 5+ clubs. I would bid 2♠.

Rik

Couldn't he double to show that?

Yes, he could double too, but than he would also be promising something in diamonds (4144, 4135).

Disagree with this.

If partner has something in everything but hearts then he's got a bid over 1♣. He's got to reason out what THAT bid is.

He could have a penalty pass of 1♣. It's not ideal, but anything else with KJTx x AKx AQJTx is more misleading.

[han]

Agree with that.

[whereagles]

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 03:41 PM, said:

As to the question 'Why do partners do this?': If you won't be able to figure out what 1NT means, partner shouldn't bid it. Therefore, partner was confident that you would be able to reason logically what 1NT meant. Thank partner for having confidence in your bridge ability.

that's the sort of thinking that can grant you a farewell from pard in the end of the session (and rightfully so)

[Trinidad]

whereagles, on Feb 12 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 03:41 PM, said:

As to the question 'Why do partners do this?': If you won't be able to figure out what 1NT means, partner shouldn't bid it. Therefore, partner was confident that you would be able to reason logically what 1NT meant. Thank partner for having confidence in your bridge ability.

that's the sort of thinking that can grant you a farewell from pard in the end of the session (and rightfully so)

I probably wasn't clear. I wrote: "If you won't be able to figure out what 1NT means, partner shouldn't bid it." I should have added: "If partner bids 1NT anyway, shame upon him."

But there are partnerships and partnerships.

Obviously, it is perfectly ok to have a partnership where you agree to refrain from giving partner riddles to solve. There is nothing wrong with that. It's the perfect way to play with a casual partner. I am all for it and it will give you good results.

But when I am playing with my favorite partner, I would most certainly bid 1NT with:

♠AQTx
♥x
♦xx
♣AKQxxx

And she would bid it with me. And no, we have never discussed this auction other than "1NT by a passed hand is take out.", which seems reasonable.
I will trust that she will figure out what I am showing, given that:

1) This is a life auction, without a fit for the opponents. Therefore, I have a good hand.
2) I passed over 1♣.
3) I didn't double 1♥.

And if you are able to solve each other's "riddles" on a consistent basis and turn out to be on the same wavelength all the time then that is very rewarding, both on a personal level and in terms of IMPs or MPs.

And to be absolutely clear: I cannot imagine that I would bid 1NT with anybody else, not even my current partner that I have been playing about 60 boards per week with for the past three years.

Rik

[whereagles]

Trinidad, on Feb 12 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

1. I probably wasn't clear. I wrote: "If you won't be able to figure out what 1NT means, partner shouldn't bid it." I should have added: "If partner bids 1NT anyway, shame upon him."

2. And if you are able to solve each other's "riddles" on a consistent basis and turn out to be on the same wavelength all the time then that is very rewarding, both on a personal level and in terms of IMPs or MPs.

1. That's better. Now I almost agree with you

2. And this is the reason I don't totally agree: giving pard riddles is ok... IF you can depend on him to be able to sort them out. If there's a chance pard will misinterpret a strange bid, just don't do it. Even if from your point of view, the interpretation is obvious. Stay out of trouble.

By the way, I speak from experience. I've had a pard who constantly kept posing me riddles which I would solve in a different way than him. Later on, he'd carefully explain why HIS interpretation was superior to mine and why it was my fault for misinterpreting the bid (that he shouldn't have made the dubious bid was, of course, out of the question). The result is I stopped playing him