[Walddk]

The traditional, annual Camrose Trophy will be on BBO vugraph Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Six teams play a double round-robin of 32-board matches over two weekends. The venue for the first weekend is Belfast in Northern Ireland (second weekend in Dublin, Ireland, in early March).

We will be broadcasting from all six tables throughout.

http://www.bridgegreatbritain.org/homeinte...amroseteams.htm
for team rosters and convention cards.

http://www.bridgewebs.com/cgi-bin/bwc/disp..._news&club=nibu
for results and standings.

The Home Bridge Internationals for England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland was launched in 1937. The South of Ireland dropped out in 1951 but rejoined as the Republic of Ireland in 1998.

The 1939 series was not completed due to war. The Camrose re-started in 1946 and has been competed for ever since. This makes the Camrose the most-played international bridge series in the world.

England have won the Camrose Trophy on 46 occasions, Scotland on 12, with these two teams tied twice. The Republic of Ireland won in 2000, 2005, 2006 and 2007, whereas Northern Ireland and Wales have yet to win.

For the second time we have six teams taking part. The holders (Republic of Ireland at present) are represented by two teams.

Roland

[paulg]

Walddk, on Jan 11 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

For the second time we have six teams taking part. The holders (Republic of Ireland at present) are represented by two teams.

<PEDANTRY>
It is the host of the second weekend that has two teams. This year it happens to be Republic of Ireland, the holders.
</PEDANTRY>

[Walddk]

cardsharp, on Jan 11 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

Walddk, on Jan 11 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

For the second time we have six teams taking part. The holders (Republic of Ireland at present) are represented by two teams.

<PEDANTRY>
It is the host of the second weekend that has two teams. This year it happens to be Republic of Ireland, the holders.
</PEDANTRY>

True Paul, my fault. They changed it for this year's edition. Not sure I understand the merit; I liked the other concept better.

It took the organisers 61 years to add a 6th team, and it has taken ages to introduce screens for this event. Things don't happen overnight in Britain

Roland

[MickyB]

Likewise.

If the hosts don't wish to field a second team, the holders are asked to instead; it will be interesting to see whether future hosts send two teams when it would otherwise have been an achievement for their first team to not finish last!

[david_c]

Five is just a really bad number - I don't like anything they've tried. In fact from a spectator's point of view I much preferred it with just the five teams. It seems the reason we have six is so that the players don't have to sit out too much.

[Walddk]

david_c, on Jan 11 2008, 01:29 PM, said:

Five is just a really bad number - I don't like anything they've tried. In fact from a spectator's point of view I much preferred it with just the five teams. It seems the reason we have six is so that the players don't have to sit out too much.

Indeed it is. An odd number is obviously really bad, so I think they did the right thing when they added a sixth. Then you can argue which should be the sixth. British Isles, British Columbia, British Airways perhaps? I don't know; at least it sounds very British.

By the way, if they want to avoid all this, perhaps they could invite a country from the continent. That would create other problems, but the event would be stronger. I am convinced that the organisers have been through all options before they settled for the holders (2) in 2007 and now the hosts of the second weekend with two teams.

Roland

[paulg]

Walddk, on Jan 11 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

It took the organisers 61 years to add a 6th team, and it has taken ages to introduce screens for this event. Things don't happen overnight in Britain 

I imagine that the major problem is that organisers are effectively the competitors, notwithstanding the efforts put in by Sandra. So each country needs to confirm every change with its board, and no-one likes change, etc..

I know there was a concern that letting the holders play as the sixth team would normally mean that there were two England teams. Although the current Irish team has dominated the last few years, it's hard to see how Wales, Scotland or NI would ever get a second spot.

Other suggestions for a sixth team, like a junior team, flounder as they always tend to benefit England, unsurprisingly as it's the biggest and strongest nation. If they weren't so focused on the historical aspects then they'd just invite the French along.

Paul

[MickyB]

Walddk, on Jan 11 2008, 11:06 AM, said:

It took the organisers 61 years to add a 6th team, and it has taken ages to introduce screens for this event. Things don't happen overnight in Britain

Roland

There were only four teams between 1951 and 1998.

Five teams is, indeed, a pretty bad number. Unless you have live boards between sets, the average pair in a six-man team will be sitting out almost half the time. The same issue exists in the junior series.

[mike777]

Walddk, on Jan 11 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

The traditional, annual Camrose Trophy will be on BBO vugraph Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Six teams play a double round-robin of 32-board matches over two weekends. The venue for the first weekend is Belfast in Northern Ireland (second weekend in Dublin, Ireland, in early March).

We will be broadcasting from all six tables throughout.

http://www.bridgegreatbritain.org/homeinte...amroseteams.htm
for team rosters and convention cards.

http://www.bridgewebs.com/cgi-bin/bwc/disp..._news&club=nibu
for results and standings.

The Home Bridge Internationals for England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland was launched in 1937. The South of Ireland dropped out in 1951 but rejoined as the Republic of Ireland in 1998.

The 1939 series was not completed due to war. The Camrose re-started in 1946 and has been competed for ever since. This makes the Camrose the most-played international bridge series in the world.

England have won the Camrose Trophy on 46 occasions, Scotland on 12, with these two teams tied twice. The Republic of Ireland won in 2000, 2005, 2006 and 2007, whereas Northern Ireland and Wales have yet to win.

For the second time we have six teams taking part. The holders (Republic of Ireland at present) are represented by two teams.

Roland

The UK has a lot of different teamevents...they all have cool names.

From top down..what are the premier events?

[Walddk]

mike777, on Jan 12 2008, 01:04 AM, said:

The UK has a lot of different teamevents...they all have cool names.

From top down..what are the premier events?

The Gold Cup
The Camrose Trophy
The Lady Milne Trophy
The Junior Camrose Trophy
The Peggy Bayer Trophy

They are all British (plus the Republic of Ireland). Then England has a few big events:

The Lederer Memorial Trophy
The Schapiro Spring Foursomes
The Crockford's Cup
The Tollemache Cup

Perhaps more could be added, but I'll let Frances or Paul do that if they see this.

Roland

[brianshark]

In my opinion, having a 6th team makes it so much more enjoyable for competitors and spectators alike. The time I played in the junior camrose (with only 5 teams), there was just way too much sitting out. It's an awful awful format.

As for who the 6th team should be... my order of preference would be:

1. A foreign team (eg. French)
2. A second England team
3. The holders
4. Winners of JC

I don't see what the problem is if it's mostly England that gets the 6th team because they have a much larger pool of stronger players. Much like the US get to field 2 teams for a world championship.

[mike777]

brianshark, on Jan 11 2008, 09:30 PM, said:

In my opinion, having a 6th team makes it so much more enjoyable for competitors and spectators alike. The time I played in the junior camrose (with only 5 teams), there was just way too much sitting out. It's an awful awful format.

As for who the 6th team should be... my order of preference would be:

1. A foreign team (eg. French)
2. A second England team
3. The holders
4. Winners of JC

I don't see what the problem is if it's mostly England that gets the 6th team because they have a much larger pool of stronger players. Much like the US get to field 2 teams for a world championship.

I do not understand....junior camrose 4th biggest team event in UK and only 5 teams...not 100?

Yes i know junior so? ....not 400 junior players in uk?

ok if 100 too much 5 seems way too tiny

why limit to 5 teams or 6 or 100?

[paulg]

mike777, on Jan 12 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

brianshark, on Jan 11 2008, 09:30 PM, said:

In my opinion, having a 6th team makes it so much more enjoyable for competitors and spectators alike. The time I played in the junior camrose (with only 5 teams), there was just way too much sitting out. It's an awful awful format.

As for who the 6th team should be... my order of preference would be:

1. A foreign team (eg. French)
2. A second England team
3. The holders
4. Winners of JC

I don't see what the problem is if it's mostly England that gets the 6th team because they have a much larger pool of stronger players. Much like the US get to field 2 teams for a world championship.

I do not understand....junior camrose 4th biggest team event in UK and only 5 teams...not 100?

Yes i know junior so? ....not 400 junior players in uk?

ok if 100 too much 5 seems way too tiny

why limit to 5 teams or 6 or 100?

The Camrose, Junior Camrose and Peggy Bayer are international representative events. The competing teams will have won trials to gain their place.

They are not open events.

About 14 pairs competed in the English Junior Camrose trials. There are eight U25 players in Scotland so don't need trials . The situation is worse in other parts of the UK.

Paul

[paulg]

There are two events in Scotland worth winning:

Winter Foursomes - similar to Spring Foursomes with shorter matches
Scottish Cup - Scotland's Team of Four championship

Paul

[FrancesHinden]

Walddk, on Jan 12 2008, 01:26 AM, said:

mike777, on Jan 12 2008, 01:04 AM, said:

The UK has a lot of different teamevents...they all have cool names.

From top down..what are the premier events?

Roland's list has is a mixture of open (anyone eligible can enter), invitational (the organisers decide who will play) and representative (the NBOs select the teams) events. For representative events, the teams are selected by a mixture of trials and whoever the selection committee fancy picking.

The 'home international' representative events are
The Camrose (open)
The Junior Camrose (U25)
The Lady Milne (women)
The Peggy Bayer (U20)

The Tollemache Cup (mentioned by Roland) is for teams selected to represent their county so is also a representative event, albeit of a different form. Apart from the best two or three teams the overall standard in it is not that high. There was a period of a few years when London, fielding a team solely of open international players, always won, but that's changing and Surrey are definitely going to win this year (final is in February)!

The open events are also of two forms - KOs which take place over a period of months, with early matches at people's homes, and so only residents (tend to) enter; and shorter events which attract more good overseas players.

The major British & English open event (leaving Paul to tell you about Scotland) is

The Gold Cup (British, definitely the biggest & best)

the other English KOs top down are
Crockfords Cup
Hubert Phillips Bowl (mixed teams of 4, my favourite!)
National Inter-Club KO (for teams representing their club) - way less serious than the others (only 24-board matches, for a start!)

The two big short events are
The Schapiro Spring Foursomes (double-elimination KO) and
The Brighton Swiss Teams (Swiss followed by all-play-all final)

The Lederer Memorial is an invitational event run privately (it's great fun, I played in it once).

There's also lots of other stuff around to play in (the national pairs, various county leagues, swiss teams congress etc etc).