[sharon j]

Was the Pass of my P's t/o dble correct?

Bidding was as follows

West   North   East   South
                          1♦    P
1♥       Dble      Rdbl    P
1♠       P             2♥    2♠
3♥      P             4♥      p
P        Dble         P      P
P

Scoring: IMP

---

Ps Posting here is sooooo hard. I must be doing it wrong.!!

[whereagles]

Hard posting: you're not going anything wrong. We all have the same problem since we don't have a template for hands

Hand: prolly better 1♠ despite having only 3 of those. You clearly prefer 1♠ to 2♣ (which is a level higher), so bid that.

[csdenmark]

sharon j, on Jan 10 2007, 06:14 PM, said:

Was the Pass of my P's t/o dble correct?

Bidding was as follows

West   North   East   South
                          1♦    P
1♥       Dble      Rdbl    P
1♠       P             2♥    2♠
3♥      P             4♥      p
P        Dble         P      P
P<!-- NORTHSOUTH begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> East </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> E/W </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> AJ872 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> 10942 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AKQ9 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> Q96 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> 65 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> QJ873 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> J62 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- NORTHSOUTH end -->


Ps Posting here is sooooo hard. I must be doing it wrong.!!

Takeout doubles are very often lazy bids. If you therefore intend to provide your opinion of this lazy bid to your partner - you only need to pass as you actually did. From your revealing it is clear the takeout double really was a lazy bid.

In any other case you must come up with something. The cheapest bid is NEXT. NEXT will in such delicate interference sequences mean 'Herbert Negative - 0-5HcP,any distribution.' Here you have 6HcP and no attractive holding. Therefore 1♠ is correct.

All other bids than NEXT shows some relevant values.

[david_c]

I don't understand what Claus is saying.

After partner's take-out double has been redoubled, pass asks partner to choose a suit. (That's what most people would mean by it, anyway.) So, with no obvious preference, a pass on this hand is fine. Partner will often have longer clubs than spades in this situation.

Having passed, it's a little contradictory to bid 2♠ on the next round. It's also highly dangerous, since LHO has bid the suit and the opponents will be in a good position to double you when it's right for them to do so. So, if you are really feeling the urge to bid spades, you should have done it the first time instead of passing.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if Pass simply say, partner I dont
have a preference, than this is what
South has, the pass asks partner to
bid is better (= longer) suit.

If the pass said, I want to play 1D XX,
then he should reconsider, North should
be allowed to make light t/o X green
vs red with an passed partner.

Of cours 2S was ???, if he does not bid
1S the round before, why bid 2S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

csdenmark, on Jan 10 2007, 09:05 AM, said:

In any other case you must come up with something. The cheapest bid is NEXT. NEXT will in such delicate interference sequences mean 'Herbert Negative - 0-5HcP,any distribution.' Here you have 6HcP and no attractive holding. Therefore 1♠ is correct.

All other bids than NEXT shows some relevant values.

Claus you slay me. Stay away from the BI section for awhile would you? Thanks.

Pass says "nothing to say". MikeH might say this is a conversion of a double (would you dude?) but otherwise it is a neutral call.

[paulg]

csdenmark, on Jan 10 2007, 06:05 PM, said:

In any other case you must come up with something. The cheapest bid is NEXT. NEXT will in such delicate interference sequences mean 'Herbert Negative - 0-5HcP,any distribution.' Here you have 6HcP and no attractive holding. Therefore 1♠ is correct.

All other bids than NEXT shows some relevant values.

Playing Herbert Negatives to a takeout double may be a standard treatment in some places but it is not universal and, in my experience, not a common treatment.

[Edit: I see that Phil has commented too ... so I'll add "what he says"! ]

p

[csdenmark]

pclayton, on Jan 10 2007, 08:04 PM, said:

csdenmark, on Jan 10 2007, 09:05 AM, said:

In any other case you must come up with something. The cheapest bid is NEXT. NEXT will in such delicate interference sequences mean 'Herbert Negative - 0-5HcP,any distribution.' Here you have 6HcP and no attractive holding. Therefore 1♠ is correct.

All other bids than NEXT shows some relevant values.

Claus you slay me. Stay away from the BI section for awhile would you? Thanks.

Pass says "nothing to say". MikeH might say this is a conversion of a double (would you dude?) but otherwise it is a neutral call.

Oh please - what I try say is completely basic. I was 40 years ago teached this I think 2nd evening. I have noticed it is not common knowledge in BBO Forum. I checked this with Goren and here it looks like there must have been other schools where I was raised than in USA.

International get together have some adventurous advantages. Some years ago I was informed that KS(Kaplan-Sheinwold) was a beginner system in Midwest USA. Difficult for me to imagine as we by that time played original Goren(4 card major) and nothing else.

[pclayton]

csdenmark, on Jan 10 2007, 10:20 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jan 10 2007, 08:04 PM, said:

csdenmark, on Jan 10 2007, 09:05 AM, said:

In any other case you must come up with something. The cheapest bid is NEXT. NEXT will in such delicate interference sequences mean 'Herbert Negative - 0-5HcP,any distribution.' Here you have 6HcP and no attractive holding. Therefore 1♠ is correct.

All other bids than NEXT shows some relevant values.

Claus you slay me. Stay away from the BI section for awhile would you? Thanks.

Pass says "nothing to say". MikeH might say this is a conversion of a double (would you dude?) but otherwise it is a neutral call.

Oh please - what I try say is completely basic. I was 40 years ago teached this I think 2nd evening. I have noticed it is not common knowledge in BBO Forum. I checked this with Goren and here it looks like there must have been other schools where I was raised than in USA.

International get together have some adventurous advantages. Some years ago I was informed that KS(Kaplan-Sheinwold) was a beginner system in Midwest USA. Difficult for me to imagine as we by that time played original Goren(4 card major) and nothing else.

I raised myself bridgewise on two Goren books (Goren's Bridge Complete, and the Sports Illustrated Book of Bridge).

The former made NO mention of Herbert Negatives. The latter mentioned it in one or two of the hands in the back.

What reference are you citing Claus, that claims its standard? Chapter and verse please.

[csdenmark]

pclayton, on Jan 10 2007, 08:34 PM, said:

I raised myself bridgewise on two Goren books (Goren's Bridge Complete, and the Sports Illustrated Book of Bridge).

The former made NO mention of Herbert Negatives. The latter mentioned it in one or two of the hands in the back.

What reference are you citing Claus, that claims its standard? Chapter and verse please.

No No - I ought to say Paul - the Goren book(Contract bridge complete) I looked up said Pass=Nothing to say. So 1-0 for you

By that time we didn't use books very much and english was no language of any kind of interest to any dane. Maybe difficult to understand today - but those days before globalisation are not so very far away.

[Al_U_Card]

This auction is a bit different from the 1m-X-XX-? type. In that sequence partner needs to hear from you and a pass says that all suits are equivalent (ie xxx xxx xxxx xxx) where 1D was the minor suit opened.

In this sequence you are already a passed hand and pard has stepped into a live auction. He is not kidding around and he wants to get into the bidding in the most appropriate way for his holdings. The RDBL by opener usually just shows significant extras and likely is a solid suit, but can also be a support double, so ask for their agreement before commiting yourself. In this case, you are telling pard that you expect to pass his next bid (even if it is dbl) and are ready to hear him call one of his promised suits (ie no preference). Otherwise, get in there and show him what you have, if you have anything to show.

[mikeh]

pclayton, on Jan 10 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

Pass says "nothing to say". MikeH might say this is a conversion of a double (would you dude?) but otherwise it is a neutral call.

Hey dude

Not in a million years... of course, I'll be dead some uncertain number of years before the million is up, so I'm not really claiming as much as it sounds.

This is NOTHING like the sequences in which I play a penalty pass of a redouble: ex: [1♠] x [xx] ?

I could go on at some length (which would surprise few) but I won't

[Al_U_Card]

LOL colour me more disappointed than surprised.....

[barmar]

Al_U_Card, on Jan 10 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

In this sequence you are already a passed hand and pard has stepped into a live auction.

Just to clarify, you aren't really a passed hand in this auction. You never had a chance to open or respond, because RHO opened before your first turn. There are many hands that can open but can't overcall (in particular, if RHO opens your suit).

However, it seems very unlikely that you could have a hand that wants to convert the takeout double to penalties. This would show a stack in responder's suit, but if you had that you presumably could have overcalled in the suit.

[SoTired]

1) I don't agree with North's t/o dbl. I would overcall 1S. With 5♣ and 4♠, the dbl is more reasonable.
2) You should have asked the opps what the XX means. Always ask what a bid means if you not sure. It is your right.
3) South's pass over the XX was correct and says, "No preference between clubs and spades".
4) The 2S bid says, "In case the bidding dies at 2H, I want to play 2S." In view of the previous pass, it can't show much strength or many spades.

I would not dbl 4H with the North hand. Based on the bidding East may be void in spades and who knows how many clubs are cashing. North's hearts may not produce any tricks and South is not likely to lead diam nor have an entry in the black suits.

[jtfanclub]

sharon j, on Jan 10 2007, 11:14 AM, said:

Was the Pass of my P's t/o dble correct?

Bidding was as follows

West   North   East   South
                          1♦    P
1♥       Dble      Rdbl    P
P        1♠            2♥    2♠
3♥      P             4♥      p
P        Dble         P      P
P

I think there was a typo...is the quote as I have it the actual bidding?

If so, it looks good to me!

[BebopKid]

First off, you made the right bid. With the Redouble, partner has a chance to bid again, so you don't have to worry about the double riding.

Second, your partner made a horrible bid, IMHO. He should have bid 1♠ with a five card suit. Then you could support. You didn't have a suit to bid.