[pbleighton]

MPs, unfavorable. indy, you hope you are playing some type of SAYC.

You deal, and get A8xxxx-Axxxx-8-10. Pd has xx-8-AJ10x-AK8xxx.

Our auction went 1S-2C-2H-3NT-4S. Down 2, 38%.

Would you have opened my hand?

What about our auction?

How would you bid this in your favorite system?

Peter

[FrancesHinden]

I wouldn't have opened the 6-5 in the majors hand, though I know many people who would have done.

However, if I did open it I would always, always, always rebid 2H. You only opened it because you have both majors, and now you conceal one of them? Partner could have had his red suits switched (move the honours around) and you would have played in 4S.

Or is there a misprint? Partner's 3NT bid over 2S looks very odd with 2 low hearts.

My auction would have been

P 1C
1S 2C
2H 2S
P

Mind you, on a non-trump lead you might make 4S.
Diamond lead (say)
Ace of diamonds, diamond ruff
Ace of hearts, heart ruff
Diamond ruff
Heart ruff
Diamond ruff (because they are 4-4, I hope)
AK of clubs discarding a heart
Club....

Now all you need is for either clubs 3-3 or RHO to be short in clubs and you have some hope of making.

[sceptic]

1 spade 2 clubs
2 hearts 3 diamonds
3 hearts 3 spdes (?) or 3NT
over 3 spades I bid 4 and over 3NT I bid 4hearts

but then I am intermediate for ever LOL]
I would love to pass BUT I know I could not resist

[pbleighton]

"However, if I did open it I would always, always, always rebid 2H."

Opps, that's what I did - I corrected the original post.

And I got a trump lead.

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would have passed, ... but I do this regulary,
and it seems to work ok.

My partner would have opened 2S (which is at
this vul. not garbage) with the intention to rebid
hearts, if given half a chance.

Over a 2S bid, I would expect my partner to
pass or bid 4S, it depends a bit, if he believes
that he holds 4 tricks for partner me or only 3,
... most likely he will bid 4S (and the same would
hold for me).

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

I do open on junk like this, as a result responder's hand is not worth a game force.

1s=1nt(semiforce)
2h=2nt(around 12-13 hcp may have a long minor invite hand)
?

Over 2nt I think I would pass with a misfit, if I bid 3H that will push us to a 4s game. These are the type of misfit hands one needs to be careful on when you open lightish with poor spot cards I think.

A roth stone 2s opener gets you to a 2s partial on this one. .
?

[Free]

I would pass with this hand and come in later. However, in my favorite system this is a limited opening showing 4+♠... We'd probably play 3♠, unless partner is too enthousiastic with this misfit.

1♥! - 1♠*
2♥ - 2NT
3♥ - 3♠
pass

[EricK]

I wouldn't have opened. But whether or not you should open, I think you should pass 3NT.

Partner knows you might have extra length in one or both majors but chose not to enquire about it via FSF. Maybe he has solid ♣ and the ♦K and hopes he can run 9 tricks in 3N.

I think the fact that you felt you couldn't trust partner's judgement on this auction shows that deep down you felt that you shouldn't have opened the hand.

"6-5 come alive" does allow you to play dead for one round!

[jdonn]

pbleighton, on Jun 19 2006, 09:17 AM, said:

MPs, unfavorable. indy, you hope you are playing some type of SAYC.

You deal, and get A8xxxx-Axxxx-8-10. Pd has xx-8-AJ10x-AK8xxx.

Our auction went 1S-2C-2H-3NT-4S. Down 2, 38%.

Would you have opened my hand?

What about our auction?

How would you bid this in your favorite system?

Peter

Was there a bad break? It looks like down 1 to me. AS, AH, H ruff, AD, AC, KC, D ruff, trump. If -2 was 38% then -1 is probably even a pretty good board.

[pbleighton]

"I think the fact that you felt you couldn't trust partner's judgement on this auction shows that deep down you felt that you shouldn't have opened the hand."

No, when I opened the hand I was going to drive to 4M, and let pd bid 5m if he wanted. I don't think 6M5M hands belong in 3NT.

Peter

[pbleighton]

"Was there a bad break? It looks like down 1 to me. AS, AH, H ruff, AD, AC, KC, D ruff, trump. If -2 was 38% then -1 is probably even a pretty good board."

Trumps were 4-1, and had a trump lead. 5-1 diamond break, too. Lost 3 trumps and two hearts.

Peter

[Trinidad]

In my favorite system, I can open 2♥, showing a weak hand with both (54)+ majors. Partner will bid 2♠, to play.

Rik

[Al_U_Card]

In 1st seat, I would pass as it lacks the rule of 20 blessing. With only 2 QT's and a rebid, I need that 3rd parameter to open in 1st or 2nd. So the auction would be, (without interference) p-1C-1S-2C-2H-2S-3S-pass.

[awm]

Playing my preferred methods:

1♠ - 2♣
2♥ - 2♠
Pass

Playing more standard methods:

Pass - 1♣
1♠ - 2♣
2♥ - 2♠
Pass

There are definitely tactical advantages to opening hands like this one, but not if partner's going to force to game on a misfitting twelve-count. This is part of the reasoning for my strong preference to play non-game-forcing 2/1s. Ignoring strong openings (assume you play strong club or riton or something to deal with these), playing 2/1 GF will help you when partner has a game force and hurt you when partner has an "invitational range" hand and is forced to start with a wide-ranging and nebulous 1NT. If your (minimum) opening range is something like 12-15, then "invite" means something like a good 10 to a bad 12, so obviously that's infrequent. If your opening range is something like 8-15, then "invite" means something like a good 10 to a bad 16, which is an awful lot more frequent.

[Joe de Balliol]

I open 1S and anyone who finds a way to stop short of 4S is being wise after the event or ought to win more world titles than they currently do.

I expect to reach 4S and go off.

J

[inquiry]

pbleighton, on Jun 19 2006, 09:17 AM, said:

MPs, unfavorable. indy, you hope you are playing some type of SAYC.

You deal, and get A8xxxx-Axxxx-8-10. Pd has xx-8-AJ10x-AK8xxx.

Our auction went 1S-2C-2H-3NT-4S. Down 2, 38%.

With a regular partner I would open 1♠, is anyone surprized? But in an individual where partner can not take a joke, I would have passed and waited for a chance for micheals. Let's forget the individual part of the question.

Quote

Would you have opened my hand?

Normal partners, yes. Playing with a pick up unknown partner in an individual, no.

Quote

What about our auction?

In an individual,
Pass - 1♣
1♠ - 2♣
2♥ - 2♠
Pass
     ...looks just about right.

I think the hand with the minors overbid when he bid 3NT. He has 12 hcp and a known misfit. The limit here is 2NT, misfits need to be bid cautiously. And in fact, I actually favor 2♠ rebid on the 2-1 in the majors to see what happened. So I think it might be possible in SAYC to land in exactly 2♠, and certainly no more than 3♠ after WEST opens.

Quote

How would you bid this in your favorite system?

With my regular partners,

1♠ - 1NT
2♥ - 2♠
Pass

Is clearly right. Does this look foreign to you? Let me explain. 1NT is forcing, and we include a strongish unbalanced 2NT rebid as an option by responder, so this hand can be shown with 1NT followed by 2NT. We also use Ritong 2♣ a shade lighter than most, a good 14 hcp is enough. So 2♥ is a weak hand 14 or less, and major two suiter. We all know to STOP bidding when a huge misfit has been found. It is true a 5-3 ♦ fit might exist, but to explore it risk gieeting too high. Responder could, if he wanted bid 3♠ to show a nice hand and only two spades (not forcing), and if he did that, it would also end the auction. NOTE 1NT for me NEVER includes as many as three card support for the major with my regular partners... playing normal 2/1 with pick up partners, of course it does.

[Free]

Trinidad, on Jun 19 2006, 08:00 PM, said:

In my favorite system, I can open 2♥, showing a weak hand with both (54)+ majors. Partner will bid 2♠, to play.

Rik

Why is this a weak hand? You have 2 Aces and only 6 losers... I also play 2♥ opening this way, but I'd never do it on this one.

[luke warm]

in my favorite system

1h : 1nt - canape, gf
2s : 2nt - 2nd suit, relay
3c : 3d - 5/5 or better, relay
3s : 4s - 6511, off 2, like you

[awm]

Joe de Balliol, on Jun 19 2006, 02:38 PM, said:

I open 1S and anyone who finds a way to stop short of 4S is being wise after the event or ought to win more world titles than they currently do.

I expect to reach 4S and go off.

J

Quote

in my favorite system

1h : 1nt - canape, gf
2s : 2nt - 2nd suit, relay
3c : 3d - 5/5 or better, relay
3s : 4s - 6511, off 2, like you

Does it take a world champion now, to stay out of game on 20 hcp with no good fit? Amazing how times have changed.

I just find some of these comments amusing. It seems to me that any reasonable system should be able to diagnose this sort of thing. Notice that those people having trouble with these hands are:

(1) Choosing to open the shapely 8-count.
(2) Forced by their methods to immediately decide whether to force game as responder.
(3) Choosing to force game with a reasonably nice 12 hcp and no obvious fit.

[flytoox]

hehe, great hand for Zar point system.

I would not open this hand. If we change the space suit to AT987x, i may open it.