[luke warm]

this is a hand posted by winstonm in another thread.. i think i'm going to choose hands that can open with a strong club, to see how different systems bid them, because i'm working on a set of responses to 1c... in that other thread, some said slam shouldn't have been bid (maybe it shouldn't), but i think the only way it won't be bid is if opener never knows about responder's 4 controls... 11 total is easily in the slam zone... anyway, how do you bid this hand in your system?

Scoring: IMP

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for me it would be:

1C : 1S
1NT : 2D
2H : 2S
2NT : 3H
3S : 3NT
4D : 4H

1S=5+ clubs, 8+ hcp, single suited or longer clubs if 2 suits
1NT asks if there's a 2nd suit
2D shows hearts, 4/5 (if 6+ clubs, responder starts by bidding them and then showing 2nd suit when/if asked)
2H asks dist, 2S shows 2425
2NT asks if min/max
3H says max (12+) with 4 controls (zoom since 3C would show 8-11, and since 3 controls are assumed for a 12+ hand)
3S is CAB, 3NT says no control with or without the jack
4D is CAB, 4H says no control with or without the jack

now if you knew all of this, that responder is 2425 with 12+ hcp with the ♣A,K and the ♥K, would you sign off at 4NT or just bid slam?

[mike777]

100% judgement not system

1s=2c(14+)
2d=2nt
3d=3nt
p=judgement bid, the hcp are there to bid 4nt but sounds like misfit auction.

Weiss, again judgement not system
1c=1s( 4 controls)
2s=3c
3d=3h
(3nt or 4d)=4nt=invite natural, again worried about misfit but will bid 4nt over 3nt.
pass=(2s=17-20 hcp), Sounds like misfit so I pass 4nt

[hrothgar]

This is going to be an ugly hand for most systems since the viability of slam depends enormously on the texture of some of the long suits...

Case in point: Remove the Jack of Hearts from the North hand.
Alternatively, remove the 10 of Spades from the South hand.
How do these "minor" changes effect your chances of making 12 tricks?

If you prefer, give the South hand the 10 of Clubs...
Here, once again, a "minor" card has an extreme impact on the optimal contract.

Most auctions are going to be imperfect...

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Aug 20 2005, 11:43 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ J8 ♥ KQJ3 ♦ 63 ♣ AKJ64 ♠ AKT42 ♥ A ♦ AQT84 ♣ 93

I would open south at 3♦, showing a preempt in ♥ or a strong two suiter (four losers or less) with ♦'s and without ♥'s (MisIry Transfer convention). The first big decision is what to bid with north's hand. If your vulnerable preempts can not be as bad as AJT-long then you bid 3♥ comfortable in the knowledge that your partner will now bid again with his strong two suiter without hearts. If you can have vul preempts headed by AJT, you must bid 4♥ with this hand. I would respond 4♥ with north. But first, lets start with the assumption that partner needs better hearts for vulnerable 3♥ preempt, the bidding would be:

3♦ - 3♥
3♠ - 3NT
Pass

Here, 3♠ shows 4 losers and diamond/spade two suiter. One rule of these two suiters is that they are 5-5 or better, so two kings in responders hand is only worth one cover card AT MOST (partner could be 6511 and neither king useful). So responders hand lacks fit, and has only two possible covers. End auction, as there are two likely losers or more on the hand.

Now lets assume partner can preempt vulnerable on just about anything (second seat vul preempts have to be sounder, so opposite a second seat 3D, bidding would go as above).

3♦ - 4♥
4♠ - 4NT
5♦ - 5♠
Pass

Here responder has a small problem, because unlike the first auction, partner can now have 3 or 4 losers. If only 3 losers, responder could have two working cards, and slam might have some outside possibilities. So responder has two choices. He can pass, which will be right in the long run anytime partner has four losers. However, if partner has three losers, slam is still very possible. For instance if partner has two clubs and only three losers, north has sufficient covers to make six spades a good shot, or if partner has two hearts and one club, the same will be true.

Imagine, if you would hands where opener had 3 losers and responders off suit covers are worth two covers. They would have a spade suit with maximum one of the AKQ missing with solid diamonds (AKQ-fifth) or AKQ-fifth is spades and diamonds missing just one cover. Hands like AKxxx A AKQxx xx for instance (three losers, both clubs working), or AKQxx xx AKQxx x, or AKQxx xxx AKQxx void (each three losers).

Due to this possibility, responder needs to make a slam try over 4♠. There are several options here. He can raise to 5♠ looking for six with 3 losers. He can bid 4NT which ALWAYS shows highest side suit king, and in this case implies, but does not promise @C cover. Over 4NT, opener can bid 5@C to discover if @CA is held with four losers, and imply @HK is useful, or that opener has only three losers in this case, and still ask about @CA.

Here, opener has the worse hand he could have for his 4♠ bid and hearing a 4NT response. First, he has four losers, not three. Second, the heart king is totally useless to him. So over 4NT, he bids 5♦ as a pass/correct type warning that heart king is no good. Responder corrects to 5♠.

Anyone interest in details on MisIry transfers can search for MisIry in this forum, or read this link http://inquiry2over1.blogspot.com/2005/06/...s-strong-2.html

Ben

[Free]

1♣ - 1♠
1NT - 2♥
2♠ - 3♣
3♦ - 3NT
(4♣ - 4♠)
pass

bidding up to 3♣ show GF hand with 2-4-2-5 distribution.
3NT shows 8 SlamPoints.
Opener might decide to hope for no top honours in ♥, since slam will be laydown. If he decides to do so, he get's a 4♠ response (showing 1 or 2 tophonours in ♣ and ♥, and no tophonours ♠). Probably best to stay in 4♠ then, since 4NT is relay, and if you want to play in NT it will be 5NT...

[Winstonm]

luke warm, on Aug 20 2005, 10:43 AM, said:

this is a hand posted by winstonm in another thread.. i think i'm going to choose hands that can open with a strong club, to see how different systems bid them, because i'm working on a set of responses to 1c... in that other thread, some said slam shouldn't have been bid (maybe it shouldn't), but i think the only way it won't be bid is if opener never knows about responder's 4 controls... 11 total is easily in the slam zone... anyway, how do you bid this hand in your system?

Dealer: South Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ J8 ♥ KQJ3 ♦ 63 ♣ AKJ64 ♠ AKT42 ♥ A ♦ AQT84 ♣ 93

for me it would be:

1C : 1S
1NT : 2D
2H : 2S
2NT : 3H
3S : 3NT
4D : 4H

1S=5+ clubs, 8+ hcp, single suited or longer clubs if 2 suits
1NT asks if there's a 2nd suit
2D shows hearts, 4/5 (if 6+ clubs, responder starts by bidding them and then showing 2nd suit when/if asked)
2H asks dist, 2S shows 2425
2NT asks if min/max
3H says max (12+) with 4 controls (zoom since 3C would show 8-11, and since 3 controls are assumed for a 12+ hand)
3S is CAB, 3NT says no control with or without the jack
4D is CAB, 4H says no control with or without the jack

now if you knew all of this, that responder is 2425 with 12+ hcp with the ♣A,K and the ♥K, would you sign off at 4NT or just bid slam?

I hate to fess up to how our bidding actually went on this hand from actual play, but it's probably worth a chuckle or two (Unless you were one of the opps who had to suffer from our ineptitude. ) I held the spade/diamond hand.

Playing 2/1.

1S-2C
2D**Got any diamonds? -3N** **Screw you.
4H** I said, "GOT DIAMONDS!?" -4S** **Yeah. I keep them up my A#$!
4N* *What the hell was 3N? -5C** **Wasn't Keycard, but maybe this is.
6S* *What is 5C? Pick a bad slam? OK, but this is your fault.
p** **I am such a good bidder.
P* *Bid this, A#$hole!


I started the rot with that silly 2D bid instead of the clear cut 3D bid. Case made for natural 3D instead of splinter. Too bad we couldn't find this auction:

1S-2C
3D-3N
4N-P

Oh, well. All's well that ends......well.....

Winston

[whereagles]

Easy for me:

1♠ 2♣
3♦ 3♥
4♦ 6NT

2♣ = game forcing.
3♦ = 54 or better, 18-20 hcp. (Upgrading the good 17 to 18.)
3♥ = natural, in principle 55. Used with 54 here for tactical reasons (responder needs more info).
4♦ = natural, 55. Probably no 6 card spade.
6NT = not looking good for 7 due to misfit.

A less optimistic responder could bid a natural 4NT after 3♦.

[Fluffy]

1♠-2♣
3♦-6NT

or something similar.