[DavidKok]

jillybean, on 2026-November-08, 08:29, said:

Please show this DD auction

1♣-1♦;
1♥-1♠;
2♦-?

1♣: 2+, may have longer diamonds than clubs (up to 4 diamonds) in a balanced hand.
1♦: 4-way: 1) natural, diamonds, Walsh style; 2) 0-7 'any' hand without a more descriptive alternative¹; 3) 8-11 hcp 4=4 in the majors; 4) 8+ hcp balanced no-major, waiting bid.
1♥: 2-way: 1) natural, clubs-hearts unbalanced (5(+)♣4(+)♥ or exactly 4=4=1=4); 2) 12-13 balanced.
1♠: Asking to describe further - denies the weakest part of option 2 (they break away here to a strain) and all of option 3 (rebid 1NT) of the 1♦ bid.
2♦: 4♠, 4♥, unbalanced, primary clubs (so 4=4=1=4 or 4=4=0=5), 11-15.


I said 'least favourable' because responder usually has diamonds on this auction, so we're not in a good spot. If responder instead bid 1M, 1NT or 2♣ over 1♣ we are in a much better position, having found a fit (a major in the first case, clubs in the second and third). Arguably 1♣-2♦ is even worse (see below) but at least the bidding is easy: we have to pass and pray.


¹The alternatives for me are:
Pass: 0-4(5) with 4(-5) clubs, prefers 1♣ to 1NT opposite 17-19 balanced.
2♦: 4-8 with 6(+)♦
2♥: 4-8 with 6(+)♥
2♠: 4-8 with 6(+)♠

[jillybean]

thank you.

[pescetom]

a)

MP

---

What are the meanings of Pass, X and 4M by 1NT Opener?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

given that I doubt, that the X generates a FP, the meaning of Pass, X, 4M are natural.

X certainly implies, that N/S have the majority of power, and given that it is MP, they
should never play 4D without X, but this does not make Pass forcing.
I guess Pass indicates a lack of fast tricks.

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2026-November-09, 03:40, said:

given that I doubt, that the X generates a FP, the meaning of Pass, X, 4M are natural.

X certainly implies, that N/S have the majority of power, and given that it is MP, they
should never play 4D without X, but this does not make Pass forcing.
I guess Pass indicates a lack of fast tricks.

Thanks.
Does everyone agree?

[DavidKok]

No. X was forcing to game, this is a FP auction.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2026-November-09, 11:31, said:

No. X was forcing to game, this is a FP auction.

For me, x was invitational or better, and announces ownership of the hand. That doesn’t make it gf. Had west passed the double and north bid 3M, I don’t think that is forcing. Obviously, this hand bids but I’d double with, say, Jxxx Axxx x Kxxx. I can’t see passing 3D with that hand and I also can’t see forcing to game.

However, and much as I dislike allowing the opps’ actions to change the meaning of our sequence, the practical effect is that the double, having announced hand ownership, has inadvertently created a force. Btw, I can recall ever having this auction before. 3D is usually a destructive bid and in my experience most advancers will pass because 3D has created a bit of a guess for the opening side, plus it’s rare that advancer has both a fit and shortness on the side. People who raise their partner’s preempts on weak, flat hands merely because ‘I have a fit’ should have a special circle in hell reserved for them.

So opener’s choices are :

4M. An offer to play. Bear in mind that responder might not have 4 card support for both majors.

X. Wasted diamond values (for offence), no 4 card major, suggests defending

Pass: up to you, partner. No 4 card major. I’d expect 4+ clubs for that. So I’d bid 5 C. In fact, given that west should have side shortness and 4 diamonds, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to find opener with 3=3=2=5 (nor would I be surprised if he held something different).

[DavidKok]

mikeh, on 2026-November-09, 12:10, said:

For me, x was invitational or better, and announces ownership of the hand. That doesn’t make it gf.

No. It is GF by agreement, for me. We can no longer stop below game. If LHO passes and partner bids 3M, that is forcing for me. The ability to calmly explore the majors and NT far outweighs the ability to stop in 3M, in my opinion, and I have catered my competitive agreements to this idea.
Your example hand is a sacrifice here. I would still double, and sometimes go down in 3NT or 4M. Too bad.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2026-November-09, 12:12, said:

No. It is GF by agreement, for me. We can no longer stop below game. If LHO passes and partner bids 3M, that is forcing for me. The ability to calmly explore the majors and NT far outweighs the ability to stop in 3M, in my opinion, and I have catered my competitive agreements to this idea.
Your example hand is a sacrifice here. I would still double, and sometimes go down in 3NT or 4M. Too bad.

Thanks, that is what I expected having read GF by agreement and I can see the logic.
I also understand the perplexity of mikeh about the auction: the diamonds distribution is a bit of a fluke and I think West had every right to his bid, East perhaps less so but neither has a place in Hell.

[mikeh]

pescetom, on 2026-November-09, 13:41, said:

Thanks, that is what I expected having read GF by agreement and I can see the logic.
I also understand the perplexity of mikeh about the auction: the diamonds distribution is a bit of a fluke and I think West had every right to his bid, East perhaps less so but neither has a place in Hell.

I wasn’t perplexed. It’s just a rare combination, especially given that EW are red.

[pescetom]

We already have multiple auctions and some interesting divergences about X of 3♦ over 1NT, it's probably time to open up the North hand.

MP

---

How do things go with your favourite agreements, in particular in Transfer Walsh or after 4♦ by W in the 1NT opening variant?

[mike777]

If EW remain silent
I probably just get to 4H
1C-1D(h)
2H-4H
P

--+

South might rebid 3D which would propel North to six hearts

I might do that at imps, probably not at MP., conservative

[pescetom]

Most of our club was in the 1NT auction and ended up in 4♥+3. I thought that was imprecise bidding, but looking harder it wasn't so easy to bid the slam in a competitive auction.

Unopposed (pigs might fly) we would find the hearts fit at 3 level and start control bidding, but things are already slowed by North hogging all the top spades and North would put the brakes on when discovering even keycards in South, retaining a diamonds void unlikely.

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-November-10, 03:03, said:

Most of our club was in the 1NT auction and ended up in 4♥+3. I thought that was imprecise bidding, but looking harder it wasn't so easy to bid the slam in a competitive auction.

Unopposed (pigs might fly) we would find the hearts fit at 3 level and start control bidding, but things are already slowed by North hogging all the spades and North would put the brakes on when discovering even keycards in South, retaining a diamonds void unlikely.

If you open, the heart fit is found, the opener still will scream, but you have a chance.
If it goes pass, followed by 1NT including the intervention (4D may not even be relevant),
you will end up in 4H, ..., after 4D I am not even sure I will get to 4H, the NT opener will
pass, responder with 2 Aces will hit it, it will be 4Dx, how much is 4Dx?

I play weak NT, I would open, we would find the heart fit, but reaching 6H is a long way, if
they continue upto 4D.

[thepossum]

pescetom, on 2026-November-07, 16:16, said:

Lost my phone for a few days, with hindsight recommend it to anyone (it's amazing how many things there are to read in newspapers and magazines or to discuss by actually talking).

Some ongoing battles and many interesting hands to catch up, but let's settle for this hand.

MP

---

Your call as South?

I'm embarassed to say I probably open 1 club. What happenes next?
At least in 2/1 you are less likely to get an awkard GF response

1C-1H
2H- then what?

Am in the 4H+n group

[P_Marlowe]

thepossum, on 2026-November-10, 03:50, said:

I'm embarassed to say I probably open 1 club. What happenes next?
At least in 2/1 you are less likely to get an awkard GF response

1C-1H
2H- then what?

After 1H, you will get a 3D overcall.
Opener will show a strong heart raise with 4D, and than what?
Obv. you have a void, you have 2 Aces, but you are dead min.


I am not sure, if over 4D you get 5D, they have 11.

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2026-November-10, 03:40, said:

If you open, the heart fit is found, the opener still will scream, but you have a chance.
If it goes pass, followed by 1NT including the intervention (4D may not even be relevant),
you will end up in 4H, ..., after 4D I am not even sure I will get to 4H, the NT opener will
pass, responder with 2 Aces will hit it, it will be 4Dx, how much is 4Dx?

4Dx-2 is 500, would have been a bottom for NS. Nobody in that contract, but there were some 5H+2, more likely taking the push over 5D than a slam investigation that petered out.
I wouldn't be surprised if several West passed 3Dx, making hearts easier to find.

[mike777]

1C={3D)=X=(4D)
??

Are we in a gf?
If so is forcing to pass on? If gf Is on I believe yes.
If not your call and why?

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on 2026-November-10, 10:12, said:

1C={3D)=X=(4D)
??

Are we in a gf?
If so is forcing to pass on? If gf Is on I believe yes.
If not your call and why?

#1 No, we are not in a GF auction, Pass is not forcing
#2 I pass, I have a min

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-November-10, 06:44, said:

4Dx-2 is 500, would have been a bottom for NS. Nobody in that contract, but there were some 5H+2, more likely taking the push over 5D than a slam investigation that petered out.
I wouldn't be surprised if several West passed 3Dx, making hearts easier to find.

Sign me up for the 500, .., but than I am playing IMPs, even at MP.