[pescetom]

This one intrigued me while directing a national simultaneous tournament.

MP

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Your call in West?

(and yes mikeh, your choice here is obvious and I had to flip a coin to decide which overall problem was more interesting to I/A)

[WasWinM]

This is the hand type that drove Howard Schenken to adopt a forcing club system. In my view, it's trick taking potential isn't great enough for 2C because it needs a fit with partner, yet it's high card strength is so great it's risky to open a 1 bid. I think I might risk the 1H opening because partner with a fit has options to keep the auction alive with weak hands and a fit.

[jillybean]

2♣ auctions are best suited to single suit or flat hands, this is neither.
Prec 1♣
but in my routine partnerships I will open 1♥ and hope I don't regret not showing this as a balanced monster. 2♣ - some number of NT

Yes, I am thinking slam. I have no idea how you bid this in a prec partnership but you are off to a good start.

[pescetom]

I have partnerships in which this is 1♥, others in which (by disclosed agreement) it is 2♣ then 2NT (with a non-standard system capable of locating ♠3-5 or ♥5-3).
Prefer the former but it requires more judgement by partner.

Not familiar with Precision or how it fares if South belatedly sticks a number of clubs in the spokes.
Please explain responses.

[Cyberyeti]

2♣

[jillybean]

As expected;

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[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-October-28, 15:54, said:

2♣

I think that with most agreements and opponents it will go:

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[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-October-28, 15:58, said:

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Let's say the agreement is:

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[jillybean]

Hand building?

♠Kxx
♥Jxxx
♦xx
♣Jxxx


4♥, unless we have some sort of last gasp/train available
Oh wait, less than invitational may be worth another try

♠KQx
♥Jxxx
♦xx
♣xxxx

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-October-28, 16:19, said:

Hand building?

♠Kxx
♥Jxxx
♦xx
♣Jxxx


4♥, unless we have some sort of last gasp/train available
Oh wait, less than invitational may be worth another try

♠KQx
♥Jxxx
♦xx
♣xxxx

So?

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2026-October-28, 16:00, said:

I think that with most agreements and opponents it will go:

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We don't play waiting 2♦, if partner has many 8 counts he will do something else, but X if it does go like that

[pescetom]

 Cyberyeti, on 2026-October-28, 17:03, said:

We don't play waiting 2♦, if partner has many 8 counts he will do something else, but X if it does go like that

East would still bid 2♦ if it required a King.
If East bids 2NT with a balanced 8+ count he would do so (not my cup of tea).
South might pass any bid.

[akwoo]

It's a 3 loser hand - I'll open 2H.

If South bids 3C, I bid 3H (presumably game forcing, usually 6 hearts). I thought about X but I'd rather risk the 5-2 heart fit than the 4-3 spade fit.

If South doesn't bid 3C, it goes 2C-2D-2H(*)-2S(*)-3S(*)

where 2H is Kokish (hearts or big balanced), 2S is forced (except with very weak minor 1 suiters or 2 suiters), and 3S shows hearts and diamonds.

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-October-28, 15:54, said:

2♣

This

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-October-28, 16:52, said:

So?

4♣ not ideal, with less than invitational values partner will be reluctant to cue above game.
However, having told me that his hand is limited, 4♣ must be serious slam interest.

[steve2005]

I dont think it's easier with Precision.
You undoubtably are going to get a 1♦ response 0-7 from partner.
Then maybe you get a 3♣ bid by opps
Even if opponent passes you have the same problem you started with
do you bid 1♥ (which for me is forcing with 4+) of do you bid 2♥
Unless partner has a heart fit it will be messy
and you still might have slam with as little as KQ♠ and heart support

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-October-28, 16:00, said:

I think that with most agreements and opponents it will go:

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3H
Will reluctantly pass 4H by partner

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2026-October-28, 23:49, said:

3H
Will reluctantly pass 4H by partner

Saw just that at several tables (reluctance included).

[Cyberyeti]

steve2005, on 2026-October-28, 22:20, said:

I dont think it's easier with Precision.
You undoubtably are going to get a 1♦ response 0-7 from partner.
Then maybe you get a 3♣ bid by opps
Even if opponent passes you have the same problem you started with
do you bid 1♥ (which for me is forcing with 4+) of do you bid 2♥
Unless partner has a heart fit it will be messy
and you still might have slam with as little as KQ♠ and heart support

Also you might have a (grand?) slam opposite something like xxx, J, Axxxx, xxxx

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-October-28, 16:00, said:

I think that with most agreements and opponents it will go:

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I've excluded ♦ and minor orientated hands from my 2♣ and included 4441s.
How would I continue? Possibly
Pass 4441
X penalty
3♦ 6M
3M 5M
3N to play