[cencio]

I think the 2 diamonds answer is a waste of declarative space. Is there an alternative response to the common use within the sayc? In Italy, crodo or half controls are used

[pescetom]

cencio, on 2026-October-15, 13:19, said:

I think the 2 diamonds answer is a waste of declarative space. Is there an alternative response to the common use within the sayc? In Italy, crodo or half controls are used

As a fellow Italian, I would answer that both Crodo and half control responses are (rightly) dead at any decent level of play, even over here.
It's hard to see how 2 diamonds wastes space
The issue is rather when you bid anything else and why.
My understanding of the traditional US agreement is that a major is a well honoured 5+, a minor a well honoured 6+, 2NT 8+ balanced, anything else 2♦.
I think one can do better, in particular by avoiding the terrible "natural" 2NT response.
My preferred solution (FWIW) is that 2♥ denies even a K and and 2♠ affirms an (unknown) well honoured suit, 2NT and upwards is artificial.

[jillybean]

pass saves space

I won't speak for NA but for me, 2♦ shows an Ace or King, 2♥ no Ace or King
I very rarely use a positive response showing a major and values, 2nt does not exist.

[mikeh]

In this part of NA, it seems to me that the majority of good players use 2D as promising an ace or king, and 2H as a bust. There are two schools of thought though..some permit 2D with, say, three queens. I’ve never understood that and refuse to play it. When I play 2H immediate negative, which I do with all but my main partner, 2D promises at least a king.

But I’ve recently, in my main partnership, switched to 2D waiting, with no immediate second negative. Why? Because in the past year or so we have three times held a balanced 25 or 26 hcp and this is a nightmare over 2C 2H. 2N isn’t forcing so one has to bid 3N. But I’d also bid 3N with a long, running suit and side stoppers…which means that responder can’t know whether to look for a 4-4 or 5-3 or 5-4 major fit. So we switched in order to have our version of birthright (aka Kokish) available. We actually don’t have an artificial delayed negative.

We design our methods for imps.

All of our responses other than 2D are artificial and tend to show very specific hand types. Our philosophy is tyst on common hand types responder stays out of opener’s way via 2D. Far from being a waste of space, we find it extremely valuable to let opener describe his hand without responder preempting him. We do have very complex methods over a strong 2N type of hand, which helps.

Fwiw, our 2N response shows an unspecified AKQJxx suit, with no side Ace or King. It’s never come up yet, but since a natural 2N is an abomination we’re just happy to have a very specific and, if it comes up, very powerful meaning…3N is the same but with a 7 card suit.

Just as a matter of bidding theory, it seems optimal to maximize available bidding space when we are almost always hung to game and will often want to reach slam. Methods that consume bidding space on mundane sorts of hands seem, to me, to be a bad idea.

[pescetom]

FWIW our artificial responses are currently limited to 2NT showing minors 55, 3♣ showing majors 54 either way and 3♦ showing majors 55.

The only time it ever happened was majors 54, we found the slam in Responder's second suit.