[pescetom]

 mikeh, on 2026-October-15, 17:12, said:

3H created a force to 3S. Partner rejected our invitation. If we trust partner, we’re done unless we felt that we had a gf over the 1S bid. Bidding 4S on a hand that is worth only an invite is a violation of partnership discipline.

Showing both hands before adding the question inevitably biases the responses. We can all see that 4S is making.

I’d pass as east if any of my real life partners bid 3S. 3S is a sign of a horrible hand…partner had pass available if he was close to going to game.

The double, which I suspect was what we call a ‘fatuous’ double, gave us an extra nuance.

Had south passed 3H, west has a binary decision…go/no go….ignoring the infrequent slam tries, which cuebid. Once south doubles, we have two…not one…two extra nuances. A lot of non experts don’t realize what fatuous doubles give to good opponents. We can bid 3S…the absolute worst hand we could hold. Utterly ridiculous on the hand. We can pass, indicating a hand that is on the borderline between 3S and 4S.

We have redouble, a slam try promising first round control. We can bid game. We can cuebid a minor, denying first round heart control but still a slam try.

The only justification for 4S is an utter lack of trust for partner, whose 3S bid is awful.

I fully agree, and passed in East. I could hardly avoid exposing both hands here because the decision that interested me was that of West, who tried to convince me that they were not worthy of accepting an invite and that I should have taken the push over 4♥.

4♥ making was a resounding bottom for us, with the rest of the room in 4♠ making. As many others are no better at bidding than West, I suspect that at other tables South pushed to 4♥ rather than making the fatuous double.

[DavidKok]

West has a clear 4♠ bid, though I will forgive people for making a slam try.
A partscore is really poor judgement, and this presents a great opportunity to learn.

East should not bid more over 3♥. I prefer for 2NT to show a good 4(+)-card raise here. On this occasion knowing of the extra trump would have made life even easier for West.

The N/S bidding is not too effective, and I expect to rob them blind on many an occasion in the future.

pescetom, on 2026-October-16, 02:28, said:

As many others are no better at bidding than West, I suspect that at other tables South pushed to 4♥ rather than making the fatuous double.

If this is what swings the board, East and West would do well to discuss competitive bidding. The double makes life much easier.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2026-October-16, 09:45, said:

The N/S bidding is not too effective, and I expect to rob them blind on many an occasion in the future.
If this is what swings the board, East and West would do well to discuss competitive bidding. The double makes life much easier.

I agree, and this was my only real doubt after the incident: what should Pass, XX and control-bid mean after the double, which offers us unexpected opportunities.
I take away the certainty that XX shows first level control and my own idea that control-bid should deny it but promise second, unless anyone has better ideas.

[DavidKok]

I prefer for new bids here to actually not be slam tries, but to help partner decide what to do over a possible 5♥ (I know, not very likely either, though I guess the vulnerability helps). So after the double:

• Pass: extra values, no clear direction
  
• XX: extra values, short hearts
  
• 3♠: minimum, signoff
  
• 3NT: offer to play (might as well not exist)
  
• 4♣: club length, investigating a double fit
  
• 4♦: diamond length, investigating a double fit
  
• 4♥: generic strong raise to 4♠
  
• 4♠: to play, wide ranging

You can swap these suit-showing bids out for controls if you want, but I think it is rare that you not only have a slam on but also find partner in a position to cooperate with the slam try. Even so, I would not swap out the likes of pass and redouble.