[strong 1c]

I have never used support doubles but thinking I should. I For purposes of this question, I define a support double as: you have opened 1D, LHO has passed, Partner has bid 1M and RHO makes a natural overcall less than 2NT Some examples: 1D -(P) -1H -(1S)-? or 1D -(P) -1S -(2C)-? or 1H -(P) -1S -(2D -?

Using support doubles, A double shows 3 card support. If opener makes any bid besides pass or a raise, then he is denying 3 card Major support.

For us, if bidding went 1D -(P) -1H -(1S)- then opener's 2nd bid would be
1NT shows NT shape, a stop and denies 3 card support
2C would show 54 in the minors (possibly 6 diamonds and 4 clubs), denies 3 card support
2D would show long diamonds, denies 3 card support
2H shows 4 card support with NT shape
3H seems like a rare bid with support and 5332 shape
2S would be undefined - do you define it ?

Suppose, however, that you do have 3 card support. Now your choices are to either pass or double. I'm trying to figure out a 'rule' or guidelines where you should pass vs where you should double, recognizing that your partner may only have a 4- card suit and only 6 HCP.

Is the rule as simple as, I am willing to play 2 of your majors with a 7-card fit, even if you are at a minimum? (I can see that there may be times when Opener may want to do a trap pass even if he has 3 of partner's Major)

I definitely welcome any comments.

[mike777]

There is so much more to support doubles and options to choose from. You might look online or buy a book or pamphlet on them.

You are right in that you need to decide if they are virtually mandatory or not in your style. There is disagreement..

[strong 1c]

mike777, on 2026-October-10, 05:40, said:

There is so much more to support doubles and options to choose from. You might look online or buy a book or pamphlet on them.

You are right in that you need to decide if they are virtually mandatory or not in your style. There is disagreement..

Thanks! and yes, that is precisely the question I am looking to see comments on. I think the nuances and options you mention are likely talking about are on responders' rebids, and not so much on opener's choices which are pretty straight forward when he has 3 card support: He can either (trap) pass or double.

Putting a trap pass aside, can you give any insight beyond my thinking: double if willing to play 2M with 7-card fit? Do you play precision with support doubles?

SO far, the online stuff I see are written for people who play 2 over 1 or Standard American

[awm]

I normally play takeout doubles in these situations, so in addition to (normally) three card support, double shows 0-2 cards in overcaller’s suit and 3+ in the unbid suit (and in diamonds). This makes it much easier for responder to find our fit in cases where the 4-3 will not be best, and also makes sure we let the opponents play in their overcall suit when we have a lot of trumps.

Of course, this works better when we can rule out the diamond one suited hand (which opens 2♦ in my style) but I play this way even in a natural/better minor system. A big part of the advantage is simply knowing what’s forcing — a surprising number of support double players don’t seem to know whether a bid other than his major is even forcing by responder after the support double.

[strong 1c]

awm, on 2026-October-10, 07:58, said:

I normally play takeout doubles in these situations, so in addition to (normally) three card support, double shows 0-2 cards in overcaller’s suit and 3+ in the unbid suit (and in diamonds). This makes it much easier for responder to find our fit in cases where the 4-3 will not be best, and also makes sure we let the opponents play in their overcall suit when we have a lot of trumps.

Of course, this works better when we can rule out the diamond one suited hand (which opens 2♦ in my style) but I play this way even in a natural/better minor system. A big part of the advantage is simply knowing what’s forcing — a surprising number of support double players don’t seem to know whether a bid other than his major is even forcing by responder after the support double.

I probably have several questions I could and may ask, but start with my first 2 questions. When you open a (your) precision diamond, when would you pass if bidding went 1D -(P) -1H - (1S) and you hold 3 Hearts and my 2nd question is, if you make a non-heart bid did you just deny 3 hearts ?

[awm]

strong 1c, on 2026-October-10, 09:31, said:

I probably have several questions I could and may ask, but start with my first 2 questions. When you open a (your) precision diamond, when would you pass if bidding went 1D -(P) -1H - (1S) and you hold 3 Hearts and my 2nd question is, if you make a non-heart bid did you just deny 3 hearts ?

I would pass if holding 3+♠. Bidding 2♣ denies three hearts by inference (since 9 cards in the minors + 3♥ means short spades). My 1♦ doesn’t include one suited diamonds so I don’t have to worry about this hand type. A 1nt rebid could include three hearts though (especially 4333).

[strong 1c]

awm, on 2026-October-10, 10:13, said:

I would pass if holding 3+♠. Bidding 2♣ denies three hearts by inference (since 9 cards in the minors + 3♥ means short spades). My 1♦ doesn’t include one suited diamonds so I don’t have to worry about this hand type. A 1nt rebid could include three hearts though (especially 4333).

Are the following statements true for you?

A. You will always double when you have a 3-card fragment with two exceptions: i) a trap pass where you think playing defense is a good option and ii) bidding 1NT, if available, may have a fragment.

B. Any natural bid you make denies a fragment.

C. With a fragment you never pass with the one exception noted in A.

D. A pass is allowed but it denies a fragment unless its a trap pass


D = C

[awm]

strong 1c, on 2026-October-10, 12:05, said:

Are the following statements true for you?

A. You will always double when you have a 3-card fragment with two exceptions: i) a trap pass where you think playing defense is a good option and ii) bidding 1NT, if available, may have a fragment.

B. Any natural bid you make denies a fragment.

C. With a fragment you never pass with the one exception noted in A.

D. A pass is allowed but it denies a fragment unless its a trap pass


D = C

A. No. I almost never have a trap pass. For example:

1♦ - Pass - 1♥ - 1♠:

♠T964
♥AQ2
♦KQ984
♣2

I would pass. If partner doubles, I will bid 2♥ (not pass).

♠J42
♥KQ9
♦A54
♣QT64

I would pass. I don't have a spade stopper but I have too many spades to double.

B. This is true in the context of the club system I actually play, but not necessarily always true:

♠Q42
♥JT2
♦AKJ983
♣3

I would bid 2♦, since double shows club length which I don't have. Pass doesn't appeal with this shape.

[DavidKok]

Here are some of my scattered thoughts on the topic, for what it's worth:

• Making support doubles mandatory with 3-card support is simplest. It can profit on defence and on lots of bid-on-versus-stop-here decisions. It also saves a lot of debates on which hand with 3-card support is good enough/too defensively oriented/has enough ruffing value/wants to be in 2M/whatever.
  
• I think takeout doubles are superior to support doubles, but this requires more detailed partnership discussions.
  
• Support doubles are stronger in limited opening systems compared to natural systems.
  
• Some of the hands you list, e.g. "1NT shows NT shape, a stop and denies 3 card support", can also just pass.
  
• Don't worry about getting too high with a minimum opposite a minimum. It's rare, and when it happens the opponents likely make something. Playing 2M in a 4-3 fit is not that bad at all.
  
• Worry about the continuations. Almost nobody actually knows what they are doing on these auctions. Which bids by responder are forcing after a support double, which are offers to play, how does opener further clarify the hand?
  
• You mention opener trap passing? That seems risky in a limited opening system.

[strong 1c]

DavidKok, on 2026-October-10, 13:37, said:

Here are some of my scattered thoughts on the topic, for what it's worth:

• Making support doubles mandatory with 3-card support is simplest. It can profit on defence and on lots of bid-on-versus-stop-here decisions. It also saves a lot of debates on which hand with 3-card support is good enough/too defensively oriented/has enough ruffing value/wants to be in 2M/whatever.
  
• I think takeout doubles are superior to support doubles, but this requires more detailed partnership discussions.
  
• Support doubles are stronger in limited opening systems compared to natural systems.
  
• Some of the hands you list, e.g. "1NT shows NT shape, a stop and denies 3 card support", can also just pass.
  
• Don't worry about getting too high with a minimum opposite a minimum. It's rare, and when it happens the opponents likely make something. Playing 2M in a 4-3 fit is not that bad at all.
  
• Worry about the continuations. Almost nobody actually knows what they are doing on these auctions. Which bids by responder are forcing after a support double, which are offers to play, how does opener further clarify the hand?
  
• You mention opener trap passing? That seems risky in a limited opening system.

Thanks David and Adam

yeah on trap pass...perhaps 1D -1H -(2C) where opener is 54 in minors, but I it seems remote; I agree

It seems like there may be two schools of thought. Either Support doubles are mandatory with a fragment or they are not. Both have appeal. (or I suppose maybe they are mandatory with well-defined exceptions) I may just try the easier approach and see how it plays out, adjust as necessary.

Continuations I'll next think about. With a weak hand, Responder can just retreat. If opponents make a 2-level bid over the double, Peter and I play transfer lebensohl when this occurs so we can invite, shows stops, bid game, etc. I have to think about 1D - (P) -1H -(2C) -then Double -(P) -and back to Responder . Probably cue bid is game force and all is invitational

Adam, when you do a SD, does that imply a point count ? ..eg. 13-15, or no

[awm]

When we are below two of responder’s suit it’s just shape. When above two of responder’s suit it shows extras, typically 14-15 in a strong club context.

[strong 1c]

awm, on 2026-October-10, 14:11, said:

When we are below two of responder’s suit it’s just shape. When above two of responder’s suit it shows extras, typically 14-15 in a strong club context.

After partner doubles showing a fragment, what does your cue bid mean aside from a game force (I assume). Are you asking for shape ? controls ? something else ?

[awm]

strong 1c, on 2026-October-11, 13:36, said:

After partner doubles showing a fragment, what does your cue bid mean aside from a game force (I assume). Are you asking for shape ? controls ? something else ?

Just game force. Since the double is takeout oriented, bidding any suit (other than the cuebid) is non-forcing. Opener bids notrump with Hx or otherwise something natural-ish, or rebids the fragment with no other appropriate call.

[pescetom]

strong 1c, on 2026-October-10, 14:01, said:

I have to think about 1D - (P) -1H -(2C) -then Double -(P) -and back to Responder . Probably cue bid is game force and all is invitational

strong 1c, on 2026-October-11, 13:36, said:

After partner doubles showing a fragment, what does your cue bid mean aside from a game force (I assume). Are you asking for shape ? controls ? something else ?

awm, on 2026-October-13, 11:56, said:

Just game force. Since the double is takeout oriented, bidding any suit (other than the cuebid) is non-forcing. Opener bids notrump with Hx or otherwise something natural-ish, or rebids the fragment with no other appropriate call.

I agree with Davidkok about defining the followups, but I missed something in this interesting discussion.
Cue bid is game force, but I can't see how the rest can be either all invitational (strong 1c) or all non-forcing (awm)?

[awm]

pescetom, on 2026-October-14, 15:08, said:

I agree with Davidkok about defining the followups, but I missed something in this interesting discussion.
Cue bid is game force, but I can't see how the rest can be either all invitational (strong 1c) or all non-forcing (awm)?

Obviously there are different styles. My style is to play opener's double as "takeout" rather than purely support. This has a number of advantages:

1. It's easier to find a superior fit in some other suit; most importantly 4-4 spade fits in an auction like 1♦-Pass-1♥-2♣-X.
2. It's easier to stay out when both partners have length in overcaller's suit.
3. We generally avoid 4-3 fits where the three-card hand has no ruffing value.
4. If opponents raise, responder has a better picture of opener's hand after the more informing double.

There are also some disadvantages compared to more normal/obligatory support doubles though:

1. Since passing doesn't DENY three-card support, we lose this inference and have to check back (and also can't as easily bid the suit on doubleton later).
2. It's possible to lose an eight-card fit when opponents raise and the short holding is in responder's hand, especially when responder is weak (i.e. 1♦-Pass-1♥-2♣-Pass-3♣ and responder has 4531 opposite opener's 2353, but responder is too weak to double).

In my "takeout" style, since one of the big advantages is the ability to find a fit in the fourth suit (or in opener's "could be short" original minor), logically the cheapest bid of these suits by responder after the double should be non-forcing (and possibly minimum).

Opposite a more standard support double, where opener has never shown length in the fourth suit (or possibly even in the opened suit, in a precision context) it makes sense that a minimum responder should not freely volunteer such a suit (especially if higher than two of the "support doubled" suit). This means responder basically has to bid two of his original suit on all minimums (leading to some awkward 4-3 fits with no ruffing value in the three hand). Whether these suit bids are "invitational-plus" or "exactly invitational and NF" or "game forcing" is a matter of agreement (and a surprising number of pairs using support doubles actually HAVE NO AGREEMENT).

[strong 1c]

awm, on 2026-October-13, 11:56, said:

Just game force. Since the double is takeout oriented, bidding any suit (other than the cuebid) is non-forcing. Opener bids notrump with Hx or otherwise something natural-ish, or rebids the fragment with no other appropriate call.

This is a work in progress for me and I don't see a lot out there on responder's options using support doubles. If Opener doubles and his LHO passes, then I think its clear that 2M is to play, 3M is inviting, 4M is to play.

With slam interest, Responder can cue bid but I need to figure out how Opener should respond. My gut says show shape because Responder doesn't know anything about Opener's hand except he has a fragment and 11-15 HCP.

If Opener's LHO bis over the double, then probably Peter and I will play transfer lebensohl with no slam interest and possibly cue bid with slam itnerest.

This leaves the cases where LHO passes the double and Opener wants to invite and leaves the case where Opener makes a bid that denies a fragment and his LHO either passes or bids.

work in progress.....

[strong 1c]

strong 1c, on 2026-October-16, 06:29, said:

This is a work in progress for me and I don't see a lot out there on responder's options using support doubles. If Opener doubles and his LHO passes, then I think its clear that 2M is to play, 3M is inviting, 4M is to play.

With slam interest, Responder can cue bid but I need to figure out how Opener should respond. My gut says show shape because Responder doesn't know anything about Opener's hand except he has a fragment and 11-15 HCP.

If Opener's LHO bis over the double, then probably Peter and I will play transfer lebensohl with no slam interest and possibly cue bid with slam itnerest.

This leaves the cases where LHO passes the double and Opener wants to invite and leaves the case where Opener makes a bid that denies a fragment and his LHO either passes or bids.

work in progress.....

If anyone cares or cares to comment, here is what I am coming up with when Opener doubles the RHO to show supporting fragment and LHO then passes:
a) Responder can Pass and leave the double in.
b) Responder can bid 2M or 4M to Play
c) Responder can bid 3M to invite
d) Responder can do both long and short suit tries with a known 8 card fit to invite as well
e) Responder can relay to begin slam asking sequence. For us it would be BETA or control asking, followed by side suit asking questions

Other bids are undefined at the moment

I need to next figure what happens where Opener has 0-2 card Major support

Go Chiefs

[mike777]

If you want people to comment I recommend you start with a specific auction and the specific hand you have a concern with..and what that concern is,
I know the post started off with a support double question, now you mentioned Beta...smile..

[strong 1c]

mike777, on 2026-October-16, 15:27, said:

If you want people to comment I recommend you start with a specific auction and the specific hand you have a concern with..and what that concern is,
I know the post started off with a support double question, now you mentioned Beta...smile..

Thanks, I have no hand. I'm working on developing how Responder shoulf bid. So I think relaying will be the way to initiate a slam search, starting with control asking

[DavidKok]

Personally I am concerned by the lack of ability to show new suits, especially since we might only have a 7-card fit. What does responder do with an invitational misfit hand? Can we still stop in a partscore in any different strain? Also I think this is a poor situation for using a relay.