[WasWinM]

To simplify, it would be nice to have the auction of 1D-P-2C be game forcing. A problem ss what to do with hands just below game forcing? Do you still play 1NT in this auction as forcing to take care of those hands or do you revert back to a SAYC style one-round force only 2C?

[awm]

No one plays 1nt forcing over 1♦ as far as I know. The usual combination if you want 2♣ response game forcing is:

2nt = invite, around 11 balanced no 4M.
3♣ = invite with 6+♣
Inverted minor raises

You can move some things around if you’re willing to use an artificial 2♥ and/or 2♠ response..

[Zelandakh]

WasWinM, on 2026-September-02, 14:59, said:

To simplify, it would be nice to have the auction of 1D-P-2C be game forcing. A problem is what to do with hands just below game forcing? Do you still play 1NT in this auction as forcing to take care of those hands or do you revert back to a SAYC style one-round force only 2C?

You already know my answer to this Winston! Just switch it around so that 1♥ covers INV+ hands and 1♠, 1NT and 2m are weak. That allows you to start your GF auctions at 1NT. This works best with relays but can also be adapted to a more natural approach. You do need 1♦ to be 4+ for this, so the 1♣ opening has to cover all of the balanced hands outside of range, but it does solve the issue. Given the efficiency of Transfer Walsh, that is a change that might even be a good thing more generally...

[mw64ahw]

As you may have seen my Esoteric Unbalanced ♦ 3+ uses 1♠ as game invitational with opener subsequently showing shape with space to stop below game. Playing 3+♦ also has the advantage of removing the death hands from a 1♣ opening.

Weak hands can play in a Moysian with 1♥ being either/both Majors facilitating this.

Further invites (INV) with 9/10 are
2N xx43
3♥ x46x
3♠ 4x6x
3N xx64

[mike777]

 WasWinM, on 2026-September-02, 14:59, said:

To simplify, it would be nice to have the auction of 1D-P-2C be game forcing. A problem ss what to do with hands just below game forcing? Do you still play 1NT in this auction as forcing to take care of those hands or do you revert back to a SAYC style one-round force only 2C?

What exactly is the problem deal?

[jillybean]

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This type of hand causes me to break tempo

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-September-02, 20:33, said:

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This type of hand causes me to break tempo

1NT

Note the NV opponents are silent, so far..also you are an UPH....
Also in general you don't want to push to game at MP.


Now add in you are flat with no Aces

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2026-September-02, 21:01, said:

1NT

Note the NV opponents are silent, so far..also you are an UPH....
Also in general you don't want to push to game at MP.


Now add in you are flat with no Aces

Mainly IMP games now
What is your 1nt opening range?

[DavidKok]

I agree with Adam's structure. I think it is common to play something like:

• 1♥: 4+
  
• 1♠: 4+
  
• 1NT: 6-9 no 4cM, usually no (4)5c♦.
  
• 2♣: GF, [5(+)♣ or 3=3=3=4]
  
• 2♦: 4+, inv(+)
  
• 2♥: your choice
  
• 2♠: your choice
  
• 2NT: 10-11 no 4cM, no 4c♦, no 6c♣ (so '3=3=3=5 minus a card')
  
• 3♣: 9-11 no 4cM, no 4c♦, 6(+)♣
  
• 3♦: (4)5+♦, mixed raise

Personally I prefer for 1NT to be 6-11 ('semiforcing') instead, freeing up 2NT for the 0-5 hcp (4)5+ 'garbage raise', along with all the usual costs and benefits of a wide range NT response. This is a minority position, though.

Of course if your 1♦ opening regularly contains not that many diamonds you may want a little extra shape for raising, which means you'll need to overload the NT responses more. That's why I put some weird lower limits on length in the raise structure. You can e.g. decide that some balanced hands should be moved out of the inverted minor raise and be put in 2NT or 2♣, for example, though I recommend against it.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-September-02, 20:33, said:

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This type of hand causes me to break tempo

My addled brain says 2NT with lots of time to spare

[jillybean]

My brain, which still wants to bid with any 13 cards, considers 2♣. Disciplined me says 2NT, but never 1NT 6-9 is not this hand

[WasWinM]

Thanks for all the answers. This post came up while reading another post where the auction began 1D-P-2C and a poster said that now that your are in a game forcing auction .... made me think, how is that a game forcing auction, and then, what do you do with less than game forcing?

[jillybean]

When did it become a GF sequence?
When I first attempted to play 2/1, I made just this bid, and partner passed me short of game. I was told back then that 2/1 applies only after a major-suit opening.
I now play it as a game force, but I'm not entirely sure when that standard changed.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-September-03, 17:22, said:

When did it become a GF sequence?
When I first attempted to play 2/1, I made just this bid, and partner passed me short of game. I was told back then that 2/1 applies only after a major-suit opening.
I now play it as a game force, but I'm not entirely sure when that standard changed.

Around 40 years ago. More seriously, in the early days if 2/1 it was common (but not universal) to play 1D 2C as invitational or better. This was particularly true for eastern experts in the US, who historically were always wary of the ‘new’ stuff coming out of (mostly) California.

As time went by, most good players recognized the benefits if using 2C as game forcing such that these days I’d be surprised to see any expert player not expect it to be gf absent specific agreement.

I prefer 1D 2N as gf, with 1D 2H being 11-13 balanced, no major. We don’t gf with flat 13 counts given our opening bid style, though some flat 13s are too good for 2H. We sec1D 3C as invitational with 6+ clubs. jB’s hand is an easy 1N.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2026-September-03, 21:50, said:

Around 40 years ago.

Of course, 40-year-old 'new' concepts just aren't picked up by the majority of players. The only exposure is when those yahoos come and play weird stuff at the club.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-September-03, 22:58, said:

Of course, 40-year-old 'new' concepts just aren't picked up by the majority of players. The only exposure is when those yahoos come and play weird stuff at the club.

Some of us weirdos read BWS, which is a good although slow to react litmus of which 'new' concepts have become mainstream among better US players.
IIRC this sequence is not only GF but also Opener's successive reverse into a major does not require extras (unlike 1H-2m;2S, which for some reason they omitted to poll).

[jillybean]

Are we now at a consensus as to what 1♥ - 2♦ - 2♠ shows?