[jillybean]

Yes, we play XYZ. IMPs

---

[mike777]

3nt

[apollo1201]

Urgh seems like we have a bad start…

What would a direct jump to 3H mean vs going through the relay? 6 very good H? So here partner has so-so H and rates to have some C values, so Jxx will enough for 3NT.

I would prefer stronger D to insist on them. Staying low on a misfit is rarely a bad idea.

[mike777]

apollo1201, on 2026-August-12, 09:47, said:

Urgh seems like we have a bad start…

What would a direct jump to 3H mean vs going through the relay? 6 very good H? So here partner has so-so H and rates to have some C values, so Jxx will enough for 3NT.

I would prefer stronger D to insist on them. Staying low on a misfit is rarely a bad idea.

The jump to 3H in XYZ would set hearts as trump and ask you to start control bidding.

So yes expect club help on this auction...


3NT seems pretty normal now. You have described your hand well.

[mikeh]

mike777, on 2026-August-12, 09:49, said:

The jump to 3H in XYZ would set hearts as trump and ask you to start control bidding.

So yes expect club help on this auction...


3NT seems pretty normal now. You have described your hand well.

I disagree with your view of 3H. Waiting for a solid no loser heart suit and (presumably) some interest in slam for bidding 3H essentially means that you’ll have a 3H bid maybe once a year if you play a LOT of bridge.

Bear in mind that, for most strong players, 1S shows an unbalanced hand so there is a high likelihood of short hearts opposite. Now, if partner thinks it’s a good idea to bid 1S on 4=3=4=3 or 4=2=4=3, there’s not quite as much downside to your treatment, but it’s still going to be exceptionally rare


I much prefer 3H to be non forcing with 6 good hearts and invitational values. Going through 2C then showing 6 hearts implies a weaker suit.

I do agree with 3N

[mike777]

I agree that 3H is rare, I agree 3nt is normal on this auction
JUMPING to the 3 level after 1X1Y1Z is strong slam interest. Here since you most likely have short hearts the jump to 3H sets trump.
In XYZ that means

1D-1H
1S-(3D or 3H or 3S) are all strong slam tries and set trump





Going thru 2D, as on this auction, would be gf but weaker suit/hand. More common auction...

With invitational hand start with 2C, more common auction.

[jillybean]

It was not a good day for soup, not a regular partner here.

---

I am already wishing I had made the unpleasant 2♣/1♦ start.
Now I find myself backed into a corner, 4♣ takes us past the sanctuary of 3nt.

[mike777]

1H was an unusual choice

Starting with 2C would be a popular start, however, not an easy hand

[jillybean]

thanks for the censored reply. It's not the worst bid I've ever made.

[mikeh]

You used to have a quote in your signature block from me about the importance of knowing how to bid shape. I have no idea why you think that responding 2C here is unpleasant. Personally, when I expect to be able to show a gf 5=6 hand below 3N, I’m feeling quite happy. Plus, while it’s a mistake to predict how an auction would go, when choosing your first bid, it’s trivial to foresee one or more problems from 1H.

Since you’re very shapely, it’s slightly more likely than it would be, were you balanced, that partner will bid 1S. In that case you can essentially kiss the club suit goodbye.

Even if he helps you out by rebidding 1N, you can’t EVER show 6C except by also showing 6 hearts, and you don’t usually want partner misreading your hand that way

And if he rebids 2D (or 3D!!!) clubs are gone forever

Just bid your hand such that you tell partner what you hold. Now, weak partners often go wrong even when you bid correctly, but it’s not as if distorting yiur hand will make them less prone to screw up! Meanwhile, other (competent) players, seeing you bid well, might be inclined to play with you. Screw up basic constructive bidding and your opps won’t think much of your game.

[DavidKok]

 mikeh, on 2026-August-12, 11:33, said:

I much prefer 3H to be non forcing with 6 good hearts and invitational values. Going through 2C then showing 6 hearts implies a weaker suit.

I much prefer to put this in the 2♥ rebid, not the 3♥ rebid. I don't enjoy playing 3-of-a-major, especially not when we have invitational values and opener can have an unbalanced misfitting minimum. This frees up 3♥ for a rare strong hand.

[mw64ahw]

Playing xyz 2♦ looks like the problem here. Not sure what 2♣ f2♦ and then 3♣ shows?

I'd also show the ♥ first, but play 2♣ as 4sf so
1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♣ 4sf
2♦ - 3♣ I can't imagine this bid being other than slam going w. 6♣ expecting partner to convert to 3N

This one fits well with my Esoteric Unbalanced ♦
1♦ 3+♦ - 1♠ GI
1N 5m43s - 2♣ extras asking for shape
3♠ 4063 - 4♣ SI

[mike777]

 mw64ahw, on 2026-August-12, 15:15, said:

Playing xyz 2♦ looks like the problem here. Not sure what 2♣ f2♦ and then 3♣ shows?

I'd also show the ♥ first, but play 2♣ as 4sf so
1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♣ 4sf
2♦ - 3♣ I can't imagine this bid being other than slam going w. 6♣ expecting partner to convert to 3N

This one fits well with my Esoteric Unbalanced ♦
1♦ 3+♦ - 1♠ GI
1N 5m43s - 2♣ extras asking for shape
3♠ 4063 - 4♣ SI

1D-1H
1S-2C!
2D!-3C

Shows 4h and 6C invitational values.

With 5H and 5C. I would probably rebid 2NT over 2D.
Opener passes with a minimum, with a max and 3H would rebid 3H which responder would raise to 4H or 3NT. A bit complicated, yes.

That means the direct 2Nt over 1S is a puppet to 3C, weak and long clubs
_---------

These are subject to partnership agreement, XYZ allows you to shape your agreements on these auctions..

[jillybean]

I admit, nothing new, at times I do switch off the brain make egregious errors, particularly online.

I do find 1♦:2♣ auctions unpleasant with a unknown partner.
Is the next bid shape, strength, controls, we have no idea.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-August-12, 18:03, said:

I admit, nothing new, at times I do switch off the brain make egregious errors, particularly online.

I do find 1♦:2♣ auctions unpleasant with a unknown partner.
Is the next bid shape, strength, controls, we have no idea.

JB at our level, I find bidding my suits in order of length extremely helpful.

The only exception I usually make are the weak or invitational 4card major 6 card minors hands


As for the rest just bid out your length

If that means you show an invitational hand as gf,so be it.

If that means you show a minimum GF hand as a hand with extras, so be it...


I would only add, just how often does the
Bidding start 1D-2C and the dastardly opponents are silent?


As such I am now reading an older book by Reese on card play. I think it it a combination of a series of pamphlets.

Also reading Kantar on defense books one and two, written for my level..

I am only on the first quarter of the play book,
Endless beautiful elimination plays/end plays, that I think I can do .....smile

[WasWinM]

jillybean, on 2026-August-12, 18:03, said:

I admit, nothing new, at times I do switch off the brain make egregious errors, particularly online.

I do find 1♦:2♣ auctions unpleasant with a unknown partner.
Is the next bid shape, strength, controls, we have no idea.

Start playing rubber bridge for stakes you can't afford and you'll learn quickly that a plus score is better than an imaginary slam.

[mw64ahw]

mike777, on 2026-August-12, 16:07, said:

1D-1H
1S-2C!
2D!-3C

Shows 4h and 6C invitational values.

With 5H and 5C. I would probably rebid 2NT over 2D.
Opener passes with a minimum, with a max and 3H would rebid 3H which responder would raise to 4H or 3NT. A bit complicated, yes.

That means the direct 2Nt over 1S is a puppet to 3C, weak and long clubs
_---------

These are subject to partnership agreement, XYZ allows you to shape your agreements on these auctions..

Thanks
I think with an invitational hand only and the 4th suit stopped there is an arguement for 2N with x4s6 or x5x5 aiming for 3N rather than play in the potential ♣ Moysian. Now 3♣ can be used to plug the gap in 2♦ GF.

Alternatively, 3♥ after 2♦ looks to be redundant? so could show this exact shape?

[mike777]

 mw64ahw, on 2026-August-12, 21:02, said:

Thanks
I think with an invitational hand only and the 4th suit stopped there is an arguement for 2N with x4s6 or x5x5 aiming for 3N rather than play in the potential ♣ Moysian. Now 3♣ can be used to plug the gap in 2♦ GF.

Alternatively, 3♥ after 2♦ looks to be redundant? so could show this exact shape?

1. Yes you may rebid 2Nt after going through 2C
2. Did not understand the rest of your post. What problem hands are you trying to fix?

[mw64ahw]

mike777, on 2026-August-12, 21:42, said:

1. Yes you may rebid 2Nt after going through 2C
2. Did not understand the rest of your post. What problem hands are you trying to fix?

This one where you miss the Club fit so any reason
1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♦
3♥ can't be the specific 4063 shape given with 3♥ opener will bid 2♥.

[kgr]

jillybean, on 2026-August-12, 12:23, said:

It was not a good day for soup, not a regular partner here.

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I am already wishing I had made the unpleasant 2♣/1♦ start.
Now I find myself backed into a corner, 4♣ takes us past the sanctuary of 3nt.

What is 3C iso 2D for you?
I play that every bid on 3 level is GF (easy to remember).
3C is GF with 5-5 H-C