[DavidKok]

jillybean, on 2025-February-07, 02:30, said:

Where do you get to using your favorite methods?

---

There are some subtleties on this auction. On hearing South's shape, North first needs to confirm the fit. North's hand is worth significant upgrades with the double fit and control in every suit. At the same time, South has a bunch of extras on the auction. The diamonds might be a source of tricks if North has ♦A or ♦J, and control in all suits helps. The ♥J is also nice.
Over 3♥, South makes a cheap control bid. North now skips 3NT (nonserious) in favour of 4♣ (serious). With the evaluation cited above this is a clear choice, though there's a fun double wriggle for experts, see end.
South now has to make a choice - 4♦ Last Train intending to bid on, or take charge. Note that there is no world where I'd bid Last Train and then pass 4♥ - the hand is too good, and partner's serious slam try pushes it even further past the line. In line with general principles I like South asking for key cards here, with the undisclosed source of tricks. Note that both hands have control of all suits, a rarity. Instead 4♦-then-bid-on (either 4♠ or 4NT) would say "partner, I have a bunch of extras, but I was hoping you could take charge" - typically aces and spaces. But South can see that North might need more information than just key cards for the slam, so this is a risky bet. There's also the option of bypassing keycards entirely, but on this deal I think that's not the right way to go. We have the trick-taking potential, we have the controls, all we need is the key cards.
On my auction South never learns of the double fit, though it was used by North to re-evaluate the hand to a serious slam try. I think this is a flaw in my methods, but not one I'm going to fix any time soon. Double fits on uncontested auctions aren't the greatest priority.


Double wriggle, for fun:

Spoiler

North (almost) knows South's shape. In particular, North knows that South has 0-1 clubs, and therefore a control. This raises two immediate questions: 1) should North's 4♣ show first round control, as the king is wasted opposite 0-1 cards? And 2) If North bids 3NT, what would South's 4♣ show? First round control, generic extras waiting bid, something else? I think it is sensible for North's 4♣ here to require first round control, and then North can immediately jump to 4♦ ('Serious Last Train' - take a moment to figure out what hand that could be). But I do not have this agreement in any partnership, and I think the nuances are too subtle to rely on without prior discussion. So I'm sticking with the simple serious mixed control meaning that is default in my partnerships. That's the first wriggle.

The second one is that North would really really like to show the ♦A. I even have agreements for this - showing a control in partner's known 5(+) suit is A/K, not shortage. North can guess that South would like to have this information for re-evaluating their hand. By bidding 4♣, it is practically guaranteed that there is no room to show this (even if we bypass RKC, a delayed 5♦ bid would be Last Train, again). There is a case to be made that, in the absence of an agreement that 4♣ shows a first round control on this auction, North should underbid with 3NT just to show the ♦A later. However, my Last Train gets in the way again - the auction 3NT-4♣; 4♦ would not show the ♦A. But in a different partnership I think a case could be made for bidding this way. That being said, I think this is masterminding. That's the second wriggle.

[mw64ahw]

Playing my Esoteric Unbalanced ♦ I have a slight difference in auction which has South playing the contract

---

[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2025-February-07, 02:14, said:

We had agreed to play RKC1430

Yes, but with hearts as trump, there are only two keycards.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I guess I end up in 4H.

Opener will have shown a 5431 hand, and responder with spade shortage, club length and min values
is hard pressed to move over 4H. I play FSF as Inv.+, i.e. opener will have shown add. strength
over a FSF inquiry, and he his min for this, so why should he move on.
Add to this, that I hate to go down in stupid contracts, I am very likely giving up and settle for 4H.
In view of the double fit and due to the controls responder has, giving up may be too pessimistic, he
may be worth another shot.
If responder showes the of diamonds below 4H, I guess, opener should move on.
The first cue for us would be 4C or 4D ..., I guess 4D is the better choice, but in the auction
1D - 1H
1S - 2C
3H - 4D ...

4D is not a cue, it would be setting diamonds as trumps, so no, I would not do this.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2025-February-07, 02:30, said:

---

Where do you get to using your favorite methods?

Tough one not easy..

1D-1H
1S-2D!
2H-3H
3S,-4C
4D-4H??or 4S?
?? 4S or P?

MAY MISS THIS ONE, up to 4D is clear, after that North or South would sign off or kickback.

Perhaps after 4D with a possible double fit in D and possible short clubs in
South, North may move over 4D.

[jillybean]

jdiana, on 2025-February-07, 07:03, said:

Yes, but with hearts as trump, there are only two keycards.

Yes, hearts are trump and the auctions continues.
You will not know that 1 keycard is missing until partner lays his 4351 hand on the table.

[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2025-February-07, 09:43, said:

Yes, hearts are trump and the auctions continues.
You will not know that 1 keycard is missing until partner lays his 4351 hand on the table.

Sorry - we seem to be talking past each other. The point was that, in your original auction, the 5♦ response to 4NT was incorrect.

[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2025-February-07, 02:30, said:

---

Where do you get to using your favorite methods?

I think a fourth suit (game-)forcing auction would be pretty standard. So, up through:

1♦-1♥
1♠-2♣
2♥-

seems clear. Responder's next bid depends on risk tolerance/hand evaluation.

4♥ - game, no slam interest
3♥ - some slam interest, cooperative (5 hearts + extras, remembering that we're in a game force so going slow is stronger)
4NT or 3(?)♠ - strong slam interest

3♥ seems right to me, following David's auction from there.

[jillybean]

Nvm, I missed the jump in spades
This is good!

Sorry, everything is getting discombobulated
. I am getting repeated “something has gone wrong” messages trying to access forums.

[smerriman]

 jdiana, on 2025-February-07, 09:54, said:

Sorry - we seem to be talking past each other. The point was that, in your original auction, the 5♦ response to 4NT was incorrect.

I think that was the point, that for all the systems you can come up with, play with a typical nonexpert and these things happen..

Though perhaps this was expected given North didn't bid the (forced?) 5nt.

[jillybean]

smerriman, on 2025-February-07, 12:10, said:

I think that was the point, that for all the systems you can come up with, play with a typical nonexpert and these things happen..

Though perhaps this was expected given North didn't bid the (forced?) 5nt.

I have to revisit this, where was the forced 5nt

[smerriman]

After North bids keycard and hears 5♦, 5nt to confirm all keycards and trump queen are held and ask about kings.

[jillybean]

I may be out of sync here but after hearing of a 9 card trump fit and 3 keycards I am bidding 6, Q or no Q

You are checking for Grand ?

[smerriman]

Bidding at least 6, yes. But given you know you have every single keycard and the queen, and grand is very possible, I don't see a reason to skip 5NT (other than expecting partner may have misbid). Even if knowing kings didn't help you, it gives partner the chance to bid 7 themselves with extra tricks.