[mw64ahw]

With one of my few attempts at playing Acol with a pick-up partner, this hand occurred and playing North I bid 3NT.
I had played with this partner once before and we had managed a top with a natural understanding; on this occasion I struggled to interpret the 4♥ bid (not Kickback as we were playing a basic Blackwood).
Any thoughts on 4♥ and what do I bid next?

---

[Cyberyeti]

Any agreement about cue bidding style ?

This could either be natural 56 in the reds in which case hearts may score better than diamonds, or some form of cue. If it's a cue, there is no guarantee about clubs as 4♣ sounds natural as 3N is often 3334.

I would have bid 2♦ inverted playing what I play, 2♠ if not playing inverted over the overcall.

[DavidKok]

I'd interpret this as 6♦5♥ or longer. The slow black suit values are likely wasted, but you do have an amazing double fit and should make a positive bid. Don't overestimate this hand though - you had a nice 15-count with a fit a second ago (I'd say the hand is too strong for 3NT, and you should bid 2♠ instead), which has now been reduced to a hand with good hearts and second round control in both black suits, should it prove to be necessary.
The lack of a spade raise or club bid is concerning, but I'll trust partner.

Personally I don't have agreements on how to set diamonds as trumps here - 4♠, 4NT and 5♣ are simply forward-going (some partnerships might play 4NT as Blackwood (and best of luck sorting out which version) or natural, but I don't think that is best on the auction). So bid 4♠, intending to go to 6♦. Alternatively you could jump to 6♦. Don't aim for 6♥ - it will score better if it makes, but runs the significant risk of a diamond ruff. Also most people are terrible at slam bidding, so even at matchpoints bidding a sound 6♦ is likely 90+%.

[mikeh]

A very useful metarule is that ‘if a bid could be natural, it is natural’. Obviously, to work well, both partners need to use it, but even (especially?) in an unpracticed partnership this must be the default.

Also, there is neither need nor logical reason for this 4H bid to be a cuebid. If opener wants to make a slam try in diamonds, he bids 4D.

Thus while partners can disappoint us, it seems clearly right to play him for 5=6.

Then our next move should depend on what we know/guess would be partner’s approach to handing minimum 5=6 reds….most in NA would open 1H with a weak hand.

For me, as an example (I doubt there is a clear consensus in detail) I’d happily open 1D and rebid 2H over 1S or 1N with say x KJ10xx AKQxxx x or xx KJ10xx AKQxxx void, void KJ98x AK109xx Ax

Thus opposite me, you have no assurance of slam but you should be safe at the 5 level….the problem being how to advance.

4N should be to play…..say KQ10 Qxx Jxx KQ10x

Cuebidding a black suit should promise the ace, since there’s no room to clarify later.

5D is just a preference

So by elimination, I think one bids 5H…this denies a black ace, since one would cuebid if one held one (bidding 5H is a slam move) so partner should know that you have good hearts but no side ace.


I don’t worry about the opps not bidding again…we bid 3N….who, in their right mind, is bidding over that with my spades and hcp?

Finally.y, a black suit cue by me wouldn’t set hearts….again, there’s no room in this auction, but we can, if partner moves over 5H, offer diamonds if we are so inclined (over 5S, which I’d take as a void more likely than the ace, I’d bid 5N, choice of slams).

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-August-09, 10:11, said:

Any agreement about cue bidding style ?

This could either be natural 56 in the reds in which case hearts may score better than diamonds, or some form of cue. If it's a cue, there is no guarantee about clubs as 4♣ sounds natural as 3N is often 3334.

I would have bid 2♦ inverted playing what I play, 2♠ if not playing inverted over the overcall.

No agreements about cue-bidding, but I think 2♠ would have been better than 3NT as I have the 4-card support

DavidKok, on 2023-August-09, 10:15, said:

I'd interpret this as 6♦5♥ or longer. The slow black suit values are likely wasted, but you do have an amazing double fit and should make a positive bid. Don't overestimate this hand though - you had a nice 15-count with a fit a second ago (I'd say the hand is too strong for 3NT, and you should bid 2♠ instead), which has now been reduced to a hand with good hearts and second round control in both black suits, should it prove to be necessary.
The lack of a spade raise or club bid is concerning, but I'll trust partner.

Personally I don't have agreements on how to set diamonds as trumps here - 4♠, 4NT and 5♣ are simply forward-going (some partnerships might play 4NT as Blackwood (and best of luck sorting out which version) or natural, but I don't think that is best on the auction). So bid 4♠, intending to go to 6♦. Alternatively you could jump to 6♦. Don't aim for 6♥ - it will score better if it makes, but runs the significant risk of a diamond ruff. Also most people are terrible at slam bidding, so even at matchpoints bidding a sound 6♦ is likely 90+%.

I interpreted as x56x which was correct, but at the time thought 3NT was the right bid 13-15 balanced with a flat shape and a weak 4-card suit, but as above I agree with 2♠
I briefly considered passing 4♥ as I thought the 15 count was on the weak side, but ended up bidding 4♠.

mikeh, on 2023-August-09, 10:58, said:

A very useful metarule is that 'if a bid could be natural, it is natural'. Obviously, to work well, both partners need to use it, but even (especially?) in an unpracticed partnership this must be the default.

Also, there is neither need nor logical reason for this 4H bid to be a cuebid. If opener wants to make a slam try in diamonds, he bids 4D.

Thus while partners can disappoint us, it seems clearly right to play him for 5=6.

Then our next move should depend on what we know/guess would be partner's approach to handing minimum 5=6 reds….most in NA would open 1H with a weak hand.

For me, as an example (I doubt there is a clear consensus in detail) I'd happily open 1D and rebid 2H over 1S or 1N with say x KJ10xx AKQxxx x or xx KJ10xx AKQxxx void, void KJ98x AK109xx Ax

Thus opposite me, you have no assurance of slam but you should be safe at the 5 level….the problem being how to advance.

4N should be to play…..say KQ10 Qxx Jxx KQ10x

Cuebidding a black suit should promise the ace, since there's no room to clarify later.

5D is just a preference

So by elimination, I think one bids 5H…this denies a black ace, since one would cuebid if one held one (bidding 5H is a slam move) so partner should know that you have good hearts but no side ace.


I don't worry about the opps not bidding again…we bid 3N….who, in their right mind, is bidding over that with my spades and hcp?

Finally.y, a black suit cue by me wouldn't set hearts….again, there's no room in this auction, but we can, if partner moves over 5H, offer diamonds if we are so inclined (over 5S, which I'd take as a void more likely than the ace, I'd bid 5N, choice of slams).

I agree 4NT would be to play and 4♠ should show the A, but I was expecting partner to twig that I was looking for a slam and rebid ♦ or use 4NT as Blackwood.
5NT seems a bit toppy here, but it may well work.

It turned out that 4♥ was the only makeable contract (not bid by anyone). I ended up playing in 4♠ -5! which was one better than I should have done. At other tables it was West that opened!

[Evies Dad]

How does nobody else get to 4H if instead West opens (assuming your partner does hold 5h - I've probably answered my own question there)

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-10, 11:00, said:

No agreements about cue-bidding, but I think 2♠ would have been better than 3NT as I have the 4-card support


I interpreted as x56x which was correct, but at the time thought 3NT was the right bid 13-15 balanced with a flat shape and a weak 4-card suit, but as above I agree with 2♠
I briefly considered passing 4♥ as I thought the 15 count was on the weak side, but ended up bidding 4♠.


I agree 4NT would be to play and 4♠ should show the A, but I was expecting partner to twig that I was looking for a slam and rebid ♦ or use 4NT as Blackwood.
5NT seems a bit toppy here, but it may well work.

It turned out that 4♥ was the only makeable contract (not bid by anyone). I ended up playing in 4♠ -5! which was one better than I should have done. At other tables it was West that opened!

I am a strong proponent of bidding shape whenever possible, but weak 5=6 reds should always be opened 1H.

One may then miss a good diamond fit…partner will play you for 5=5 reds…but you won’t miss any 5=3 or better heart fits.

[mw64ahw]

mikeh, on 2023-August-10, 18:55, said:

I am a strong proponent of bidding shape whenever possible, but weak 5=6 reds should always be opened 1H.

One may then miss a good diamond fit…partner will play you for 5=5 reds…but you won't miss any 5=3 or better heart fits.

I'd always open the Major, but not with 2 Kings & a Jack at the 1-level!