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Distribution with support but weak opposite overcall

#1 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-February-18, 17:00

MPs, opps playing 5CM strong NT:



A new suit would be forcing, cueing hearts would be inv+ with support, we don't play jump shifts.
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#2 User is online   DavidKok 

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Posted 2023-February-18, 17:14

I think the book bid is 3♣, planning on bidding 3♠ next round. I've never liked that much since you get stuck if NS bid 4♥ - not unlikely when we have weakness and a void. The chance that partner gets excited and starts raising clubs is not very high.
With a slightly stronger hand I'd have sympathy for a 4♣ fitbid (despite the off shape), but this hand is too weak to force to the 4-level.

At the table I would bid 2♠, but I suspect that 3♣ gets a majority vote.
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#3 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2023-February-19, 01:07

2♥ is enough, I want to show partner that I have support to let him compete. The hand has shape but gets downgraded for the ♦J84
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
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#4 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-February-19, 03:48

View Postjillybean, on 2023-February-19, 01:07, said:

2♥ is enough, I want to show partner that I have support to let him compete. The hand has shape but gets downgraded for the ♦J84


South has bid 2♥ in front of you so you'd have to bid 3♥ if you want to show a good(ish) hand with support.
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#5 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-February-19, 03:49

View PostDavidKok, on 2023-February-18, 17:14, said:

I think the book bid is 3♣, planning on bidding 3♠ next round. I've never liked that much since you get stuck if NS bid 4♥ - not unlikely when we have weakness and a void. The chance that partner gets excited and starts raising clubs is not very high.
With a slightly stronger hand I'd have sympathy for a 4♣ fitbid (despite the off shape), but this hand is too weak to force to the 4-level.

At the table I would bid 2♠, but I suspect that 3♣ gets a majority vote.


If you bid 3♣ North bids 4♥.
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#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-February-19, 11:50

On a Friday evening I would probably bid 4♥ at this vulnerability, which takes the wind out of their sails.
But 3♥ is more flexible and sensible.
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#7 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-February-19, 17:16

A selection of bids suggesting it is not clear cut. My partner held this hand and bid 4♠ which worked out well when North bid on and went down:



4♠ should get hammered but North chose to bid on and went two down. 4♥ can make but no-one did. One EW pair played in 3♠ going two down. I think we got lucky here.
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#8 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2023-February-20, 11:48

Hi,

doubling 4S at MP is hard, ..., given the vul. you have to get it right,
you need to have a fair chance for -4, you assume you have 620 your side.
You are not even in a Forcing Pass Seq.
They told you, that you have no spade looser, you have a 9+ heart fit, bidding
5H is not wrong, ..., sometimes partner has more than a dead min.

Get it right.

The 4S bid is certainly over the top, but you have the right colors, you have
a void in their suit, you have a source of tricks, and sometimes partner has
a suit, worthy to be named a suit, for his overcall.
If it is F2F, you have to make the bid in normal tempo, and this will ask them
a question, will they get it right?

You got lucky, yes, but luck favors the brave.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: We would sell the hands as a mixed raise with a club suit.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#9 User is online   DavidKok 

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Posted 2023-February-20, 11:56

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2023-February-20, 11:48, said:

doubling 4S at MP is hard, ..., given the vul. you have to get it right,
you need to have a fair chance for -4, you assume you have 620 your side.
I don't think this is the right way to think about doubles. Maybe if it were legal to bid 4♥ over 4♠ you would consider this argument, but even then I'm struggling to follow along.
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#10 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2023-February-20, 12:05

View PostDavidKok, on 2023-February-20, 11:56, said:

I don't think this is the right way to think about doubles. Maybe if it were legal to bid 4♥ over 4♠ you would consider this argument, but even then I'm struggling to follow along.

The expectation for a double is 300 - 500.
Playing IMPs I would go for that, playing MP, I need to decide, if the chance for 620/650 is higher.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#11 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-February-20, 12:29

View PostAL78, on 2023-February-19, 17:16, said:

4♥ can make but no-one did.

Isn't setting uo a spades ruff enough?
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#12 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-February-20, 17:15

View Postpescetom, on 2023-February-20, 12:29, said:

Isn't setting uo a spades ruff enough?


I would have thought so just looking at the NS cards. My RHO butchered the play by drawing trumps first. I remember being surprised we made two spade tricks in the defence given partner's 4♠ bid, I was expecting declarer to ruff the second round of spades.
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