[LBengtsson]

I have noticed a number of players advertising their services here to teach bridge, via Skype, Zoom, etc. for bridge beginners, intermediates and less experienced players, and I wonder what safeguards BBO has in place?

I am sure there are many who have experience (at advanced level or above) and are genuine, and just wish to earn a few dollars on the side, but it does make me think that it is an easy way for some not-so-honest types to scam players. It is the internet age after all, and there are more scams online than anywhere else these days. Actually, I guess 99% of scams now occur online.

A beginner or intermediate would (probably) not know whether the advice offered was good or bad, especially if they have not taken lessons at a recognised club. And as bridge is so involved, and there are so many things to learn, a systematic scammer could take lessons from a number of inexperienced players for a number of months before being found out. Earning thousands of dollars. I have seen one-to-one tuition @$40 an hour minimum, so it is not too difficult to see someone earning $1500+ per week from such malpractice.

There are many bridge players who have not learnt technical bidding but believe they are at advanced or expert level, so they would be falsifying their credentials if they were offering their services. Rather like applying for a job when a degree is needed without having one.

And what would BBO do if someone who had engaged another player to teach them online actually complained? And wanted a refund? Would they hire an attorney? Or would the allegation be just brushed under the carpet? And how can BBO prevent it happening?

As I said previously, I am sure many people offering a teaching service are genuine, with good card play and bidding skills, and plenty of experience, but there is the opportunity for rogue types to make money dishonestly here. Do you agree? And has anyone had experience of this actually happening?

[pescetom]

Certifying teachers is a difficult business at best, almost hopeless in a field like bridge where there is a limited body of science and traditional teaching methods are arguably very poor anyway.
Having said that, being certified to teach by an RA is a minimum safety barrier and better than no control at all.
Maybe BBO could request documentation of this before cancelling any offer to teach.

[paulg]

As far as I am aware, the smallest NBO that I belong to does not certify teachers at all but it does provide a lot of course material.

And most of the newer players in my club have been taught by people who are intermediate players themselves, and a little bereft of technical skills or bidding prowess. However everyone can play, so I don't think bridge skills are as important as teaching skills.

I worry a little like the OP about scams on BBO and elsewhere, but I doubt if BBO want to get into the teacher certification business. At the end of the day, it is buyer beware.

[thepossum]

Yes anyone with a basic understanding of anything can teach it/anything and maybe be better than those who overcomplicate something nice and simple and fun

I have no doubt there are tendencies in the world would love to stop us teaching each other fun card games. Get a certification etc

Some of us do occasionally like to supplement our knowledge a nd skills by searching out information from accepted expert players, especially on web sites and forums and books

Here's this fun game. I read the rules in a book and tried it a few times. I have a pack of cards. Want to play too?

I have been using Larry's (example) set of very simple conventions to keep it easy at first (EDIT Maybe you need 12 but I think its broken into 4s)

[johnu]

Yes, anybody can teach bridge and get paid if they are good enough salesmen. I remember there was an elderly guy years ago that was both a terrible bidder and player who actually thought he was a top player and theorist who was ridiculed by some other BBO players. This guy advertised his services and apparently had several paying customers. In his defense, he actually thought he was a good player and teacher.

BBO doesn't even attempt to verify any of it's users (with the exception of starred players and support volunteers???) and isn't involved in private transactions so I don't see how BBO can get involved. At best, BBO could ban teacher ID's just like they ban cheaters, but anybody could just create a new ID.

[LBengtsson]

johnu, on 2022-November-24, 19:34, said:

Yes, anybody can teach bridge and get paid if they are good enough salesmen. I remember there was an elderly guy years ago that was both a terrible bidder and player who actually thought he was a top player and theorist who was ridiculed by some other BBO players. This guy advertised his services and apparently had several paying customers. In his defense, he actually thought he was a good player and teacher.

BBO doesn't even attempt to verify any of it's users (with the exception of starred players and support volunteers???) and isn't involved in private transactions so I don't see how BBO can get involved. At best, BBO could ban teacher ID's just like they ban cheaters, but anybody could just create a new ID.

I am glad you said this, johnu, as I thought the same. Anyone can create a new ID, and a secondhand computer will provide a new IP address. That is my take. You say, In his defense, he actually thought he was a good player and teacher. But that is not a defense, except his. Rather like saying, "he's a good driver but he never got a license". (And we all know people who have a license and are bad drivers.)

Another example: I have a good online bridge friend (we have never met) who has a number - 7 - from playing with robots against her name. She has the money to practise and go up the rankings, but her bridge level is still beginner to intermediate. She has obviously improved playing with the bots but ask her what a Jacoby 2NT or a Michael's Cue Bid is, and she has not got a clue!

Paulg says "At the end of the day it is buyer beware". We can see on eBay or Amazon a seller's reputation, but it is not so evident on BBO. I still think it is possible for young dudes - and most scammers are male, I guess - sweettalking older, richer widow types who see playing bridge as some sort of status jump, and the opportunity to meet new people into some lessons. BBO probably, without knowing they are doing it, encourage it with the Beginner/Intermediate playing arena. That is where a scammer would go to 'pick up' any potential victims. Kibitz a game where someone with a limited number of logins is playing, message them, and strike up a online conversation, etc. No need to advertise and hope for a few replies. Actually target their victims. I am sure that is possible.

And I wonder if that has happened on BBO? I guess, and it is only a guess, that anyone who has been scammed for a couple of hundred dollars on a site like this would not report it but put it down to experience. It would take just one scammer operating like this, taking a few hundred dollars off a variety of people no time to amass a considerable sum of money. And there is the potential of confidence tricksters to earn a lot more, by getting the trust of a few less able players and doing this over a long period of time to earn potentially more, as I said previously.

[diana_eva]

LBengtsson, on 2022-November-24, 14:01, said:

I have noticed a number of players advertising their services here to teach bridge, via Skype, Zoom, etc. for bridge beginners, intermediates and less experienced players, and I wonder what safeguards BBO has in place?

I am sure there are many who have experience (at advanced level or above) and are genuine, and just wish to earn a few dollars on the side, but it does make me think that it is an easy way for some not-so-honest types to scam players. It is the internet age after all, and there are more scams online than anywhere else these days. Actually, I guess 99% of scams now occur online.

A beginner or intermediate would (probably) not know whether the advice offered was good or bad, especially if they have not taken lessons at a recognised club. And as bridge is so involved, and there are so many things to learn, a systematic scammer could take lessons from a number of inexperienced players for a number of months before being found out. Earning thousands of dollars. I have seen one-to-one tuition @$40 an hour minimum, so it is not too difficult to see someone earning $1500+ per week from such malpractice.

There are many bridge players who have not learnt technical bidding but believe they are at advanced or expert level, so they would be falsifying their credentials if they were offering their services. Rather like applying for a job when a degree is needed without having one.

And what would BBO do if someone who had engaged another player to teach them online actually complained? And wanted a refund? Would they hire an attorney? Or would the allegation be just brushed under the carpet? And how can BBO prevent it happening?

As I said previously, I am sure many people offering a teaching service are genuine, with good card play and bidding skills, and plenty of experience, but there is the opportunity for rogue types to make money dishonestly here. Do you agree? And has anyone had experience of this actually happening?

There is an opportunity to scam old, gullible people, but these are private transactions that BBO can't really get involved in, and most of the times is not aware of, until it's too late. We cannot prevent people from sending money to each other for other reasons either, if they want to.

If we find crooks doing weird things we ban them, we post announcements to remind people not to trust anonymous users on the internet, we message the potential victims to warn them that someone has been approaching them and he/she may not be what they claim to be. In the end, it's up to each person. Some even say to us "I know s/he's a scammer, but I don't mind. I have money and s/he's entertaining". What can we answer to this

All this is just common sense protecting our users, we do not have an actual policy to "validate" what people do outside of BBO. Anyone can teach, and we see that some of the most "productive" teachers (who actually get people hooked to bridge) are intermediate players teaching just the basics.

As for the teachers in the BBO Forum I tend to remove ads from people with 1-2 posts but I also invite them to join as contributors, post, answer some questions. They are welcome, but they can't start their forums activity with an ad, that's all.

[hrothgar]

I don't expect the folks running a bridge site to fix human nature

[mikeh]

Prompted in part by this thread, I’ve posted what is basically an advertisement in the teaching/partner sub forum