[akwoo]

 TylerE, on 2020-July-11, 18:44, said:

No no no no no no. How the HELL can 4♣ be gerber here? That is just DUMB.

Actually I think it's a reasonable agreement for this situation.

I want 4N to be quantitative balanced invite with a stopper, and, besides, making it a keycard ask will frequently put you too high when you wanted to stop in 5D.

I want 4S to be a general force, usually with diamond support.

I want 4H to be natural.

I want 4D to be purely competitive.

I want 4C to be natural too, but this seems less important than all of the above (especially at MPs).

I'd rather just not have keycard available, but if your partnership wants a keycard ask, it makes sense that 4C is the keycard ask.

[helene_t]

 hrothgar, on 2020-July-11, 14:34, said:

I admit to being terribly tempted to just bid 3N

Hmmm ... I think that if 3NT is the right contract, dbl will take us there also, most of the time, and sometimes righsided.

If p has four spades we are quite happy for him to leave in the double. And if bid 3NT, we are quite happy to make partner declare so he receives a spade lead. If we declare, p might have AJxx-KJ-Jxxxx-Jxx and we are down on a heart lead.

If p has less than four spades, his spade holding might need protection.

3NT works great if p has AQ-Jxxx-AJxx-xxx and would bid 4♥ in response to a double, but I think he should bid 3NT in response to a double. That's of course a question of style, as MikeH explains.

[AL78]

 bluenikki, on 2020-July-11, 17:41, said:

But will partner know not to bid slam with 2 ♠ losers?

I think 5♦ must strongly urge slam with ♠ control and demand a pass with none.

Wouldn't a 4♠ cue strongly urge slam interest with ♠ control?

[FelicityR]

I haven't entered the discussion here yet, but given the OP is from the USA so presumably playing a strong no trump, opener may only have three diamonds and a weak 4432 (or a 3442) hand here. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the 3♠ pre-emptor could well be playing opposite a void or singleton. Double is the only bid - as long as it is seen as competitive with game values but not necessarily a ♥ suit - that will either result in us arriving in 3NT, bidding beyond 3NT, or collecting a 500+ penalty when West has stretched their meagre values pre-empting 3♠ opposite a passed partner on a rubbish suit such as ♠Q876542 with an outside K and some shape. Some players take extreme liberties here

So presumably what you eventually bid here is a matter of style, partnership agreements, and sizing up how the opposition bid pre-empts. I don't disagree with bidding 5♦ with a pick-up partner, but X seems the most flexible bid that doesn't lose bidding space and conveys some information to partner.

[apollo1201]

 TylerE, on 2020-July-11, 18:44, said:

No no no no no no. How the HELL can 4♣ be gerber here? That is just DUMB.

Reminds me of a story somewhere (can’t remember where, dunno if truth or myth, but quite funny).

A good and famous player / teacher / author playing with a sponsor in a big tournament. The sponsor says « whenever I bid 4C, it is Gerber, period ».

They move to a table and the professional opens 3C. His LHO overcalls 3 in a major and the sponsor bids 4C. Alert. RHO asks « alert? » and the pro mumbles something like « erber ». RHO asks again sorry I didn’t understand. The pro blemishes / turns red and properly articulates « Gerber ». The RHO was actually Mister Gerber himself!

[nige1]

 apollo1201, on 2020-July-12, 05:54, said:

The RHO was actually Mister Gerber himself!

Albert Benjamin rarely played his eponymous convention

[apollo1201]

 nige1, on 2020-July-12, 07:32, said:

Albert Benjamin rarely played his eponymous convention

😅
Is it Mr Blackwood also who said it each time his convention was wrongfully used he had won $1, he’d be millionnaire?

[dokoko]

After 1M(3x) some theorists suggested to exchange the bids 4♣ and 4x (e.g. "ETM Gold Premium" on bridgematters.com by Glen Ashton).

So 4♣ shows a good raise (slammish) while the more space consuming cuebid shows a club length. Since many club hands would use a thrump double instead of showing the length this seems helpful. We extended this treatment to our 1♦ opening which shows an unbalanced hand (usually 5+).

Using this replacement cuebid, we can find out about a spade control later.