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Weird squeeze position

#1 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-14, 14:46

This is a contract I suspect you aren't going to make unless it's doubled. I played in 3♠, we lost a bunch because team mates doubled 4♠ and it made, I don't know the auction at their table.



Follow the play through and observe the odd squeeze N is subjected to if S leads a club and W ruffs with the K, it's a kind of red suit ruffing squeeze with the added wrinkle that underruffing is also fatal. In practice with nothing to guide me and only in 3♠ I ruffed with the J and was overruffed so only emerged with 9 tricks.
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#2 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-December-15, 05:17

That's a nice squeeze. I think - please correct me if I'm wrong - it's a variant of a cross ruffing squeeze with trumps outstanding.

Triple cross ruffing squeeze, anyone? :)
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-15, 05:36

View PostFelicityR, on 2019-December-15, 05:17, said:

That's a nice squeeze. I think - please correct me if I'm wrong - it's a variant of a cross ruffing squeeze with trumps outstanding.

Triple cross ruffing squeeze, anyone? :)


It's not really a ruffing squeeze involving both reds in that what it really does is prevents a heart discard or you ruff them out, a diamond discard more allows you to cross ruff the hand because W has to follow to the 4th heart.

It's just an odd position.
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#4 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-December-15, 07:03

What was the auction at your table?
Did South get to mention her clubs?
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-15, 08:31

View Postpescetom, on 2019-December-15, 07:03, said:

What was the auction at your table?
Did South get to mention her clubs?


2♠-P-3♠ and nobody bid but they led ♣J anyway, 2♠ could have been 4 of them and a zero count.
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#6 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2019-December-15, 14:01

View PostFelicityR, on 2019-December-15, 05:17, said:

That's a nice squeeze. I think - please correct me if I'm wrong - it's a variant of a cross ruffing squeeze with trumps outstanding.

Triple cross ruffing squeeze, anyone? :)


It seems related to a Backwash Squeeze too- quite interesting and reinforces the idea Not to double and give away too much info. +100 or _50 are about the same without a huge trump stack. But it would be informative if we had the actual auction.

DAVE
###$
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#7 User is offline   keen12 

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Posted 2019-December-16, 15:04

why can I not re- play the whole hand. It stops at 2-2
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#8 User is offline   keen12 

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Posted 2019-December-16, 15:07

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-December-14, 14:46, said:

This is a contract I suspect you aren't going to make unless it's doubled. I played in 3♠, we lost a bunch because team mates doubled 4♠ and it made, I don't know the auction at their table.



Follow the play through and observe the odd squeeze N is subjected to if S leads a club and W ruffs with the K, it's a kind of red suit ruffing squeeze with the added wrinkle that underruffing is also fatal. In practice with nothing to guide me and only in 3♠ I ruffed with the J and was overruffed so only emerged with 9 tricks.






It won't allow me to replay the whole hand.
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#9 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-16, 15:37

View Postkeen12, on 2019-December-16, 15:07, said:

It won't allow me to replay the whole hand.


Because I stopped it at the critical point, from that point, S plays a top club and W ruffs with the K, just look at what this does to N. Apparently it won't allow you to put part of a trick into diagrams
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#10 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-December-16, 18:44

Cyberyeti 'This is a contract I suspect you aren't going to make unless it's doubled. I played in 3♠, we lost a bunch because team mates doubled 4♠ and it made, I don't know the auction at their table. Follow the play through and observe the odd squeeze N is subjected to if S leads a club and W ruffs with the K, it's a kind of red suit ruffing squeeze with the added wrinkle that underruffing is also fatal. In practice with nothing to guide me and only in 3♠ I ruffed with the J and was overruffed so only emerged with 9 tricks.'
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As dsLawsd points out, CyberYeti's board is a variant of the
beautiful backwash squeeze
On the left, a simplified version, with South declarer.
Defenders start with 3 rounds of ♣s.
GIB verifies that, to succeed, declarer must ruff with ♠A.

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#11 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-December-17, 00:03

Sir it is a backwash squeeze.I had posted a similar looking deal where an opponent got squeezed in three suits one of which was the trump suit itself.Therein it was a three card ending.
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-17, 04:16

View Postnige1, on 2019-December-16, 18:44, said:

Cyberyeti 'This is a contract I suspect you aren't going to make unless it's doubled. I played in 3♠, we lost a bunch because team mates doubled 4♠ and it made, I don't know the auction at their table.Follow the play through and observe the odd squeeze N is subjected to if S leads a club and W ruffs with the K, it's a kind of red suit ruffing squeeze with the added wrinkle that underruffing is also fatal. In practice with nothing to guide me and only in 3♠ I ruffed with the J and was overruffed so only emerged with 9 tricks.'
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As dsLawsd points out, this seems to be
a beautiful backwash squeeze, CyberYeti.
On the left, simplified version, with South declarer.
Defenders start with 3 rounds of ♣s.
GIB verifies that, to succeed, declarer must ruff with ♠A.



Mine is slightly different in that you can apparently succeed by discarding on the third club due to the ♠98 not being with the Q, but yes this is the form if you ruff high
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#13 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-December-26, 15:14

View Postmsjennifer, on 2019-December-17, 00:03, said:

Sir it is a backwash squeeze.I had posted a similar looking deal where an opponent got squeezed in three suits one of which was the trump suit itself.Therein it was a three card ending.


AFAIR, Géza Ottlik discovered the backwash squeeze

Something like this?
With ♠s trump. South ruffs his ♣2 with North's ♠K?

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#14 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2021-November-09, 11:13

View Postnige1, on 2019-December-26, 15:14, said:


AFAIR, Géza Ottlik discovered the backwash squeeze

Something like this?
With ♠s trump. South ruffs his ♣2 with North's ♠K?



This one is already known as Seres squeeze (by Tim Seres) where two menaces are in unfavoureble position(=1sf, 1sf or controlled in the lower hand) with an high trump (in both hands) and also the trump is squeezed!(Lovera)
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