[661_Pete]

I'd welcome some advice here. At pairs MPs, I hold, game all dealer N:

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Playing acol, I open 1♣ expecting to rebid 1NT to show 15-17. 2♠ was explained as 'intermediate' i.e. showing good ♠ and opening values or just below.

Normally we'd play X as negative, i.e. forcing and showing some strength elsewhere. But after a jump overcall in ♠? I hesitated a long time. I can't call NT, I can't rebid ♣, can I really show a 4-card ♥ suit at the 3 level? Or a 3-card ♦? Surely I'm not strong enough to cue-bid 3♠ - especially with my doubleton and partner passed first round.

After agonising over this, I passed. I thought, just possible it was a penalty double, like in old-style Acol.

You can guess what happened next. 2♠x just made , for a rank bottom for us. I apologised and partner was very understanding, albeit not best pleased!

Incidentally, partner held ♠852/♥K42/♦Q754/♣KQ2. I think with his hand he should have passed 2♠ anyway. But he's a very enthusiastic bidder!

[eagles123]

passing 2S X with 4 hearts is a strange choice to say the least

[apollo1201]

Partner’s bid is not that enthusiastic! As he has sound values, just lacking the 4th H. Maybe he has to cover for you, if you are / aren’t expected to re-open with a strong NT, or a weakest hand with long C?

[Cyberyeti]

Where does he get his 8th trick from ? Did he have a 7th spade and dummy have an entry ? Otherwise the bidding may have been a lucky win but the defence let it down.

[FelicityR]

Playing 4M Acol I'd open 1♥, the suit below the doubleton. The only response that might embarrass you is 2♦, but you can still rebid 2NT with 15-16 and it doesn't promise a ♠ stopper.

As everyone else said, you should have respected your partner's negative double - even though his hand was off shape and not quite right to compete - and bid 3♥. Most doubles (especially at a low level) are for takeout.

[neilkaz]

Just rebid 3♥happy to have a 4th♥.

[661_Pete]

neilkaz, on 2019-June-14, 10:00, said:

Just rebid 3♥happy to have a 4th♥.

Yes that's what my partner told me . Thanks everyone for the feedback. We all get it wrong sometimes!

[rmnka447]

Partner had enough value for a negative double but lacked the 4 ♥ necessary for the double with a balanced hand. In any case, if a ♥ contract turns out to be poor because of partner's lack of a 4th ♥, then that's on him/her.

Bid 3 ♥. Your LHO has shown values which makes your three AJ's lose a little value. So I don't see upgrading this 15 count and making a stronger bid.

[nige1]

661_Pete writes 'I'd welcome some advice here. At pairs MPs, I hold, game all dealer N. Playing acol, I open 1♣ expecting to rebid 1NT to show 15-17. 2♠ was explained as 'intermediate' i.e. showing good ♠ and opening values or just below.Normally we'd play X as negative, i.e. forcing and showing some strength elsewhere. But after a jump overcall in ♠? I hesitated a long time. I can't call NT, I can't rebid ♣, can I really show a 4-card ♥ suit at the 3 level? Or a 3-card ♦? Surely I'm not strong enough to cue-bid 3♠ - especially with my doubleton and partner passed first round.After agonising over this, I passed. I thought, just possible it was a penalty double, like in old-style Acol.You can guess what happened next. 2♠x just made , for a rank bottom for us. I apologised and partner was very understanding, albeit not best pleased!Incidentally, partner held ♠852/♥K42/♦Q754/♣KQ2. I think with his hand he should have passed 2♠ anyway. But he's a very enthusiastic bidder!'
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CyerYeti seems right: Just looking at the 2 hands,
you both seem to have judged well, in the bidding, especially at match-points.
You were unlucky that 2♠X made.

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[steve2005]

661_Pete, on 2019-June-14, 12:17, said:

Yes that's what my partner told me . Thanks everyone for the feedback. We all get it wrong sometimes!

partner knew when they doubled you might have to bid heats at 3-level.
Why are you being shy?

[msjennifer]

Sirs.perhaps quite a few ,if not all, moderns may open this hand 1NT. And then a 2S overcall would make things rather problematic.Any idea how to proceed acting honest (1NT openers hand does not deny a spade stopper)

[apollo1201]

msjennifer, on 2019-June-15, 00:46, said:

Sirs.perhaps quite a few ,if not all, moderns may open this hand 1NT. And then a 2S overcall would make things rather problematic.Any idea how to proceed acting honest (1NT openers hand does not deny a spade stopper)

The OP plays weak NT from what I understand, si can’t open a strong NT.
After a strong NT and a 2S over call, it is not an issue. Either N punts 3NT betting on a S stopper opposite, or he has a way (Lebensohl / Rubensohl) to show a GF hand w/o stop. Then you end up in 4 something which will not be a piece of cake either.

[nekthen]

apollo1201, on 2019-June-15, 01:08, said:

The OP plays weak NT from what I understand, si can’t open a strong NT.
After a strong NT and a 2S over call, it is not an issue. Either N punts 3NT betting on a S stopper opposite, or he has a way (Lebensohl / Rubensohl) to show a GF hand w/o stop. Then you end up in 4 something which will not be a piece of cake either.

As a weak NT player, I would choose to open 1N AJxx is a lousy combo. Happy to regard this as a 14 count.
I am a fan of opening minor before major on 4-4 hands but 1♥ is also fine, if that is your agreed style.

While we all would dbl with one less spade and one more heart, I still prefer it to pass. It says I have points and no spade stop ok p will believe I have 4 cards in hearts, but life is messy.

One rule that I ask my partners to obey, is when in doubt bid. Did we agree 1S 4H is a splinter? If in doubt bid! Is partners double penalty? If in doubt bid! Is 2N lebensohl or natural? If in doubt bid!

[steve2005]

msjennifer, on 2019-June-15, 00:46, said:

Sirs.perhaps quite a few ,if not all, moderns may open this hand 1NT. And then a 2S overcall would make things rather problematic.Any idea how to proceed acting honest (1NT openers hand does not deny a spade stopper)

3NT values without a stopper (Lebensohl)
will probably end up in 4C

[HardVector]

Just out of curiosity, does opening 1♣ in Acol promise you having the balanced 15-17, or could you have a normalish distributional 12 count? After the negative double, I'm thinking you should bid 4♥, not 3. I'd bid 3h with xx Kxxx Kx AKxxx or something similar.

Just as an aside, you didn't discuss with your partner how high your negative doubles go? I normally play them as "on" after every suit bid up to 4♦.

[Tramticket]

HardVector, on 2019-June-23, 10:54, said:

Just out of curiosity, does opening 1♣ in Acol promise you having the balanced 15-17, or could you have a normalish distributional 12 count? After the negative double, I'm thinking you should bid 4♥, not 3. I'd bid 3h with xx Kxxx Kx AKxxx or something similar.

1C will either be 15+ balanced or unbalanced. Your example hand would open 1C, but it doesn't look much weaker than Pete_661's hand. Both are 3H bids.

For what it's worth, I would have opened 1H. It seems to me to be pointless to agree to play 4-card majors, then choose to open a minor anyway with this hand. But I know that others have other opinions!

[HardVector]

Tramticket, on 2019-June-23, 13:04, said:

1C will either be 15+ balanced or unbalanced. Your example hand would open 1C, but it doesn't look much weaker than Pete_661's hand. Both are 3H bids.

For what it's worth, I would have opened 1H. It seems to me to be pointless to agree to play 4-card majors, then choose to open a minor anyway with this hand. But I know that others have other opinions!

I think with my example hand you should bid 3h, but I disagree with the idea of bidding just 3h with the real hand. I agree with you that the auction was already messed up by not opening 1h. After messing it up, however, I think you need to show the extra value and hope that partner doesn't play you for a big 6/4.