[Chillwell1]

Hi!

I've seen some elite players play Multi as either weak in a major or GF with diamonds. The rebid showing diamonds (normally) after 2C - 2D; 3D has another meaning playing Multi with strong D and i think this has a lot of benefits.
I'm trying to figure out a structure for me and my partner for both the 2D Multi bid showing GF with diamonds and also the rebid after 2C - 2D; 3D.

The structure i have come up to;

2C - 2D;
3D = 5+D + 4S
3H = 5+D + 4H

I think having the hand 2524 or 2542 is pretty awkward so this makes it easier, i think.

2D - 2H;
2NT = Showing GF with D

(Maybe you can add some more GF hands in, like;
3C = Diamonds with clubs
3H = Diamonds with singleton heart
3S = Diamonds with singleton spade


I'm having trouble finding a reasonable continuation after these rebids.
Is my structure even good?
Do you experts have any input on these sequences?

Thanks!

[nullve]

An idea I've been working on for some time:

Suppose

2♣ = <range 1> BAL OR <range 2> BAL OR unBAL GF not with primarily diamonds
2♦ = Weak 2M OR <range 3> BAL OR unBAL GF with primarily diamonds

and that 44(41), 4M5m22 and 5M4m22 are treated as balanced. Then it's possible to play

2♣-2♦; ?:

2♥ = "5+ H, unBAL" OR <range 1> BAL
...2♠ = relay
......2N = BAL
......3♣+ = 5+ H, unBAL, R(♥). See R(x) below.
...Anti-relays:
...2N = 2-H6+C (=> 3♦+ = unBAL)
...3♣ = 2-H6+D (=> 3♥+ = unBAL)
...3♦ = 6+S2-H (=> 3♥/3N+ = unBAL)
2♠ = "5+ S, unBAL"
...2N = relay
......3♣+ = R(♠). See R(x) below.
...Anti-relays:
...3♣ = 2-S6+C
...3♦ = 2-S6+D
...3♥ = 2-S6+H
2N = <range 2> BAL
3♣+ = "(4)5+ C, unBAL", R(♣). See R(x) below.

2♦-2M; ?:

P = weak, long M
2N = <range 3> BAL
3♣+:
As if
3♣+ = "GF, (4)5+ D, unBAL", R(♦). See R(x) below.
except that
3♦(M=♠) = Weak 2♥ OR as in R(♦). See R(x) below.

R(x):

(with

ab(x) = the "adjacent" suit "below" x (S,C,D,H if x is C,D,H,S, respectively)
na(x) = the suit not "adjacent" to x (H,S,C,D if x is C,D,H,S, respectively)
Or(x) = the other suit of the same rank as x,

and lo,mi,hi being the lowest-, middle-, highest-ranking suit outside x, respectively)

3♣ = 4+ lo, not 5-5 OR 1-suited
...3♦ = relay
......3♥ = 1-suited
......3♠+ = S(x,lo). See S(x,y) below.
...(...)
3♦ = 4+ mi, not 5-5
...3♥ = relay*
......3♠+ = S(x,mi). See S(x,y) below.
...(...)
3♥ = E(x). See below.
3♠+ = S(x,hi). See S(x,y) below.

S(x,y):

3♠ = 5x4y13(04) (e.g. Mulberry over this)
3N = 5x4y31(40) (e.g. Mulberry over this)
4♣+ = 6+x4+y**. Maybe something like
4♣ = 6x4y (e.g. Mulberry without 4♣ over this)
4♦ = 6x5y
4♥ = 7x4y
And if we don't want to stop there, why not
4♠ = 6x6y
4N = 7x5y
5♣ = 8x4y
5♦ = 7x6y
5♥ = 8x5y
5♠ = 9x4y

?

E(x):

Basic idea:

3♥ = 5x5ab(x) OR 5x5na(x)2+Or(x) OR (if x=m) 4m1na(m)44 OR (if x=M) 5M4OM22
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 4m1na(m)44 (if x=m) or 5M4OM22 (if x=M)
......4♣ = 5x5ab(x)
......4♦+ = 5x5na(x), 2+ Or(x).

In more detail:

E(♣):

3♥ = 5S5C OR 5H2+D5C OR 1444
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 1444 (e.g. Mulberry over this)
......4♣ = 5S5C (e.g. Mulberry without 4♣ over this)
......4♦ = 5H2+D5C, even # of KC(♣) (=> e.g. 4♠ = RKC(♥), 4N = ♣Q ask, agreeing C)
......4♥ = 5H2+D5C, odd # of KC(♣) (=> e.g. 4♠ = RKC(♥), 4N = ♣Q ask, agreeing C)
...(...)

E(♦)

3♥ = 5D5C OR 5S5D2+C or 4144
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 4144 (e.g. Mulberry over this)
......4♣ = 5D5C (e.g. Mulberry without 4♣ over this)
......4♦ = 5S5D2+C (=> e.g. 4♥/4N = RKC(♦/♠), respectively
...(...)

E(♥)

3♥ = 5H5D OR 2+S5H5C OR 4522
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 4522 (e.g. Mulberry over this)
......4♣ = 5H5D (e.g. Mulberry without 4♣ over this)
......4♦ = 2+S5H5C, even # of KC(♣) (=> e.g. 4♠ = RKC(♥), 4N = ♣Q ask, agreeing C)
......4♥ = 2+S5H5C, odd # of KC(♣) (=> e.g. 4♠ = RKC(♥), 4N = ♣Q ask, agreeing C)
...(...)

E(♠)

3♥ = 5S5H OR 5S2+H5D OR 5422
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 5422 (e.g. Mulberry over this)
......4♣ = 5S5H (e.g. Mulberry without 4♣ over this)
......4♦ = 5S5D2+H (=> e.g. 4♥/N = RKC(♦/♠), respectively)
...(...)

* Passable with a Weak 2♥ in the sequence 2♦-2♠; 3♦-3♥.
** If Opener has shown at least 10 cards in x and y at 4♦ or higher, but nothing yet about key cards, then the lowest/2nd lowest bid by Responder outside x and y could be used as "RKC" in the lowest/highest ranking suit of x and y, respectively.

[I'll fix mistakes when I see them.]

Edit: Random examples (work in progress):

Spoiler

K                   9 7 6 5 4 2 
A K Q 8 5 3 2       7 6 
A T                 Q J 
A J 7               K Q 2 

2C-2D
2H-3D ("Kokish"; 6+S2-H)
3H-? ((2)1-S6+H; ---)

A K 3 2             Q 8 7 
6                   K T 3 2 
A K Q T 3           J 5 2 
A Q 3               9 7 6 

2D-2S(say)
3S-3N (GF, 4153/4054; S/O)
P

A K Q T 6 4         J 9 5 2 
Q 8                 4 2 
K                   A J 9 6 2 
A K 7 3             J 6 

2C-2D (too weak for 2C IMO, but...; relay)
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
4C-4H (6S4C; RKC(S) (if Mulberry))
?

K                   6 4 
A K Q T 3 2         9 8 6 4 
A Q T 6             J 8 7 5 2 
K J                 Q 8 

2C-2D
2H-2S
3D-3H (5+H4+D, not 5H5D; relay)
4C-4D (6H4D; stop signal (if Mulberry))
4H-P (forced; wanted to play 4H)

A K J T 6           7 3 
A T 5 4             Q 7 6 2 
A                   9 5 3 
A Q 4               K J 6 2 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3S-? (5413/5404; ---)

-                   9 6 5 4 3 2 
A K Q T 4 2         6 
A K                 8 7 
A Q T 8 6           9 7 3 2 

2C-2D
2H-3D ("Kokish"; 6+S2-H)
?

A 9 3               Q J T 8 5 
A K Q T 4 3         J 7 6 
A K Q 7             8 5 
-                   A 8 5 

2C-2D
2H-2S
3D-3H (5+H4+D, not 5H5D; relay)
4C-4H (6H4D; RKC(H) (if Mulberry))
?

A K 7 6 5 4         J 9 3 2 
K                   A 9 8 
A K T               3 2 
A K 9               Q 8 3 2 

2C-2D
2S-2N 
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3H-? (1-suited; ---)

A Q 9               J 5 4 2 
A                   K 7 5 4 
A K T 5 2           4 
A Q 9 4             K J 8 5 

2D-2S(say)
3C-3D (GF, 5+D4+C, not 5D5C OR 1-suited; relay)
3N-4S (3154; RKC(C) (if Mulberry))
?

A                   7 6 5 4 3 
A K Q 8 6           T 
A K 2               T 9 6 4 3 
A 7 5 3             K T 

2C-2D
2H-2S
3C-3D (5+H4+C, not 5H5C OR 6+ H,  1-suited; relay)
3S-? (1534 (0544); ---)

A K J 7 5 2         9 8 6 
A Q 2               J 8 7 6 3 
Q J                 8 7 4 2 
A J                 6 

2C-2D 
2S-2N ("5+ S, unBAL" (the hand is really too weak for this GF action, but...); relay)
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3H-? (1-suited; ---)

K                   Q 8 6 3 
A K J T 7 2         8 
K 9                 J T 4 2 
A K Q 8             9 5 3 2 

2C-2D
2H-2S
3C-3D (5+H4+C, not 5H5C OR 6+ H, 1-suited; relay)
4C-? (6H4C; ---)

A                   J T 8 5 
8                   Q 9 4 3 
A Q J 3             5 
A K Q 9 7 3 2       T 8 6 5 

2C-2D
3C-3D (4+D5+C, not 5D5C OR 6+ C, 1-suited; relay)
4H-4S (4D7C; RKC(C))
?

A K Q T 7 6         J 
A Q                 K J 4 2 
Q T                 J 8 7 5 4 2 
A Q 3               K 2 

2C-2D
2S-3D ("5+ S, unBAL"; 2-S6+D)
3S-? 

A                   9 8 5 4 3 2 
K Q 9 3 2           7 
A K Q J 6 3         9 8 4 
Q                   K 7 6 

2D-2H
3D-3S (GF, 4+H5+D, not 5H5D; 6+S3-H)
4H-? (5H6+D; ?)



A K Q 7 3           T 2 
Q                   A K J 8 
K Q                 A T 7 5 
A J T 6 3           Q 9 4 

2C-2D (really too weak for 2C, but...; relay)
3H-3S (5S5C, 5H2+D5C or 1444; relay)
4C-4H (5S5C; RKC(C) (if Mulberry))
?

A Q J 9 8 5         T 7 6 3 
A Q                 K J T 4 
J 9                 8 7 4 2 
A K Q               3 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3H-? (1-suited; ---)

A                   6 5 4 3 
A Q 7 6 2           J T 5 3 
A Q J               8 6 2 
A Q J 7             T 4 

2C-2D
2H-2S
3C-3D (5+H4+C, not 5H5C OR 6+ H, 1-suited; relay)
3S-4D (1534 (0544); stop signal (if Mulberry))
4H-P (forced; wanted to play 4H)

A Q T               K 7 2 
A K 5 2             8 6 3 
A K Q J 8           3 
T                   A K 9 8 5 3 

2D-2S(say)
3D-3H (Weak 2H OR GF, 4+H5+D, not 5H5D; relay)
3N-? (GF, 3451; ---)

9                   K J 5 
A K Q 7             J 4 
A Q 5               J 7 6 3 2 
A K 8 6 2           J T 5 

2C-2D
3D-3H (4+H5+C, not 5H5C; relay)
3S-? (1435 (0445); ---)

A K 7               J 6 4 
Q                   K 9 4 3 
A K Q 7 3           T 5 
K Q 6 2             J 8 5 3 

2D-2S(say)
3C-3D (5+D4+C, not 5D5C OR 6+ D, 1-suited; relay)
3N-P (3154; ---)

K Q 7 2             J T 8 6 5 
A                   K 9 7 3 2 
A K 8 6 4 3         - 
A Q                 J 3 2 

2D-2S(say)
4C-4S (4S6D; RKC(S) (if Mulberry))
?

A K Q 9             T 3 
K Q 9 8 6 5         T 7 4 2 
A K                 Q T 5 3 2 
8                   5 2 

2C-2D
2H-2S
4C-4D (4S6H; stop signal (if Mulberry))
4H-P (forced; wanted to play 4H)
P

A K Q J 3 2         T 9 
K Q J               9 8 5 4 
7                   K 9 4 
A K 6               J 8 7 2 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3H-4S (1-suited)
P

A Q 9 6 3           8 7 4 2 
Q                   K 7 
A K 4               Q 5 2 
A K 9 2             J T 6 3 

2C-2D 
2S-2N (too weak for this, but... ; relay)
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3S-? (5134 (5044); ---)


A K J T 9 8         5 
A J 8 4             K Q T 5 3 
A T                 K 4 
A                   K 8 6 4 2 

2C-2D
2S-2N
4C-4S (6S4H; RKC(H) (if Mulberry))
?

A K T 9 8 6         J 
A                   K T 9 3 
6                   A 4 3 
A K Q 8 4           J T 9 7 5 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
4D-4H (6S5C; RKC(C))
?

A K 7 4 3           J 6 2 
A Q J 7 4           K T 5 3 
A T                 K 7 6 3 2 
K                   8 

2C-2D
2S-2N ("5+ S, unBAL"; relay)
3H-3S (5-5 or 5422; relay)
4C-4H (5S5H; RKC(H) (if Mulberry))
?

A Q                 J T 8 7 6 
A K J 6 3           8 5 4 
2                   A 9 7 4 
A K Q J 8           7 

2C-2D
2H-2S ("Kokish"; relay)
3H-3S (5-5 or 4522; relay)
4D-4S (2+S5H5C, even # of KC(C); RKC(H))

A K Q 7 6 3         J 8 5 2 
A 9                 K Q 3 
A K                 3 
K 9 2               Q 7 6 5 3 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3H-? (1-suited; ---)

A K T 4             9 7 6 2 
A K 3               Q T 7 6 2 
A K J 9 7 3         4 2 
-                   T 7 

2D-2S(say)
4C-? (4S6D; ---)

K Q J 8 5 3         T 9 6 
A Q                 K 9 7 6 5 2 
8                   Q 6 
A K Q 2             J 6 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
4C-? (6S4C; ---)

A                   K 4 3 
-                   T 8 7 6 5 
A K Q J T           8 7 6 4 
A K J 8 7 6 5       4 

2C-2D
3C-3H (4+D5+C, not 5D5C OR 6+ C, 1-suited; 5+ H)
4N-? (5D7C; ---)

A K                 Q J T 9 8 
T                   7 6 
A K J 6 5 3 2       T 
A Q 4               K J T 8 3 

2D-2H
3C-? (5+D4+C, not 5D5C OR 6+ D, 1-suited; ---)

A K Q 9 8 3         4 
A Q J 6             T 7 3 
A                   J T 9 5 
A 5                 Q J T 7 4 

2C-2D
2S-2N
4C-4D (6S4H; stop signal (if Mulberry))
4H-4S (forced; contract)
P

A K 7 2             Q 8 
A 5                 K T 7 4 
Q                   A T 7 6 4 3 2 
A K Q J T 9         - 

2C-2D(?)
4C-? (4S6C; ---)

K J 9 7 6           A T 8 
A                   T 8 7 3 
A Q J               K T 
A K 9 4             Q J T 6 

2C-2D
2S-2N
3C-3D (5+S4+C, not 5S5C OR 6+ S, 1-suited; relay)
3S-? (5134 (5044); ---)

A K Q 5 4           J 8 6 
A Q                 5 3 2 
-                   K Q 9 6 3 2 
K Q J 8 7 6         5 

2C-2D
4D-? (5S6C; ---)

A K J 8 3           T 9 
A K 3               7 5 
K J 7 4             A 8 3 
A                   J T 8 6 5 2 

2C-2D
2S-3C ("5+ S, unBAL"; 2-S6+C)
3D-3S (4+D2-C; 2 S)
3N-P (5 S, NF; ---)

A K T 6             Q J 9 7 5 
A K T 7 5           3 
A Q 9               6 2 
A                   K Q T 8 4 

2C-2D
2H-2S
3N-4S (4531/4540; RKC(S) (if Mulberry))
?

Added, starting 3 May 2020:

Spoiler

Canapé version of the above structure:

2♣ = <range 1> BAL OR <range 2> BAL OR "unBAL GF excluding some hand types with 4+ D"
2♦ = Weak 2M OR <range 3> BAL OR "unBAL GF w/ D, mostly canapé"

and 44(41), 4M5m22 and 5M4m22 are treated as balanced.

2♣-2♦; ?:

2♥ = "4+ H, unBAL, mostly canapé" OR <range 1> BAL
...2♠ = relay
......2N = BAL
......3♣+ = 4+ H, unBAL, R(♥). See R(x) below.
...Anti-relays:
...2N = 3-H6+C (=> 3♦+ = unBAL)
...3♣ = 3-H6+D (=> 3♥+ = unBAL)
...3♦ = 6+S3-H (=> 3♥/3N+ = unBAL)
2♠ = "4+ S, unBAL, mostly canapé"
...2N = relay
......3♣+ = R(♠). See R(x) below.
...Anti-relays:
...3♣ = 3-S6+C
...3♦ = 3-S6+D
...3♥ = 3-S6+H
2N = <range 2> BAL
3♣+ = "4+ C, unBAL, mostly canapé", R(♣). See R(x) below.

2♦-2M; ?:

P = weak, long M
2N = <range 3> BAL
3♣+:
As if
3♣+ = "GF, 4+ D, unBAL, mostly canapé", R(♦). See R(x) below.
except that
3♦(M=♠) = Weak 2♥ OR as in R(♦). See R(x) below.

R(x):

(with lo,mi,hi being the lowest-, middle-, highest-ranking suit outside x, respectively)

3♣ = "usually 5+ lo, not (5521)" OR 1-suited
...3♦ = relay
......3♥ = 1-suited
......3♠+ = S(x,lo). See S(x,y) below.
...(...)
3♦ = "usually 5+ mi, not (5521)"
...3♥ = relay*
......3♠+ = S(x,mi). See S(x,y) below.
...(...)
3♥ = E(x). See below.
3♠+ = S(x,hi). See S(x,y) below.

S(x,y):

(with s,t being the remaining suits such that s < t (s > t) if x < y (x > y))

3♠ = 4x5y3s or 5x5y3s
3N = 4x5y3t or, only if t=m, 4x5y4t
4♣+:
E.g. the almost "symmetric"
4♣ = 4x6+y, low void OR 4x7y11
...4♦ = relay
......4♥ = 4x6y03
......4♠ = 4x7y11
......4N = 5x6y02
......5♣ = 4x7y02
......(...)
4♦ = 4x6y(21)
4♥ = 4x6y30
4♠ = 5x6y11
4N = 5x6y20
5♣ = 4x7y20
(...)
or the crazy* :
4♣ = 4x3y[60] [Responder must "guess" whether Opener has 4x3y06 or 4x3y60!]
4♦ = 4x6y(21)
4♥ = 5x6y11
4♠ = 5x2y[60] [Responder must "guess" whether Opener has 5x2y06 or 5x2y60!]
(...)

* 4x7y11 shapes are now treated as 4x[711] [Responder must "guess" where the 7c suit is!] and must go through E(x) (see below)


E(x):

Basic idea:

3♥ = "problem 3-suiter or (5521) or maybe 4x(711)"

In detail:

E(♣):

3♥ = 1444, 4405 or 5M5C(21)
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 1444
......4♣ = 4405
......4♦ = 5S5C(21)
......4♥ = 5H5C(21)
......and maybe
......4♠ = 4C[711] [Responder must guess where the 7c suit is!]
...(...)

E(♦)

3♥ = 4144, 4450 or 5B5D(21)
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 4144
......4♣ = 4450
......4♦ = 5S5D(21)
......4♥ = 5D5C(21)
......and maybe
......4♠ = 4D[711] [Responder must guess where the 7c suit is!]
...(...)

E(♥)

3♥ = 5422, 5440, 0544 or 5H5D(21)
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 5422
......4♣ = 5440
......4♦ = 0544
......4♥ = 5H5D(21)
......and maybe
......4♠ = 4H[711] [Responder must guess where the 7c suit is!]
...(...)

E(♠)

3♥ = 4522, 4504, 5044 or 5S5H(21)
...3♠ = relay
......3N = 4522
......4♣ = 4504
......4♦ = 5044
......4♥ = 5S5H(21)
......and maybe
......4♠ = 4S[711] [Responder must guess where the 7c suit is!]
...(...)

* Passable with a Weak 2♥ in the sequence 2♦-2♠; 3♦-3♥.
** If Opener has shown at least 10 cards in x and y at 4♦ or higher, but nothing yet about key cards, then the lowest/2nd lowest bid by Responder outside x and y could be used as "RKC" in the lowest/highest ranking suit of x and y, respectively.

If shape is not fully resolved at 3♠ or 3N, then

4♣ = slam try without a known C fit if C is a potential trump suit, else a slam try without a known D fit
...4♦ = not (5431)
......4♥/4♠/N = PKC in the lowest, midmost and highest potential trump suits, respectively
...4♥ = (5431)
......P(H a potential trump suit) = known H fit, not slammish oposite (5431)
......4♠ = to play if S is a potential trump suit, else PKC(♦)
......4N = PKC(♥) if H is a potential trump suit, else PKC(♠)
......5♣ = PKC(♠) if both H and S are potential trump suits, else not defined
4♦ = slam try with a known C fit if C is a potential trump suit, else a slam try with a known D fit
...4♥ = not (5431) (good news)
......4♠+ = PKCR(♣) if C is a potential trump suit, else PKCR(♦)
...4♠+ = (5431)
4♥ = to play if H is a potential trump suit, else a slam try with a known D fit
...P = mandatory if H is a potential trump suit,
...[not finished]
4♠ = to play if S is a potential trump suit, else not defined

where where PKC(T) is Parity Key Card (Blackwood) agreeing T with response structure (which I call PKCR(T))

step 1 = even # of key cards
...step 2 = TQ ask
......step 3 = no TQ
......step 4+ = TQ, zoom
step 2 = odd # of key cards, no TQ
step 3, with zoom to 5T = odd # of key cards, TQ.

If shape is fully resolved at 3♠ or 3N, then Zelandakh-style continuations are used, only with PKC instead of RKC.

[I'll fix mistakes when I see them.]


[not finished]

[spotlight7]

 Chillwell1, on 2018-July-24, 08:17, said:

Hi!

I've seen some elite players play Multi as either weak in a major or GF with diamonds. The rebid showing diamonds (normally) after 2C - 2D; 3D has another meaning playing Multi with strong D and i think this has a lot of benefits.
I'm trying to figure out a structure for me and my partner for both the 2D Multi bid showing GF with diamonds and also the rebid after 2C - 2D; 3D.

The structure i have come up to;

2C - 2D;
3D = 5+D + 4S
3H = 5+D + 4H

I think having the hand 2524 or 2542 is pretty awkward so this makes it easier, i think.

2D - 2H;
2NT = Showing GF with D

(Maybe you can add some more GF hands in, like;
3C = Diamonds with clubs
3H = Diamonds with singleton heart
3S = Diamonds with singleton spade


I'm having trouble finding a reasonable continuation after these rebids.
Is my structure even good?
Do you experts have any input on these sequences?

Thanks!

It not uncommon to use 2C-2D-3M as 4M and 5+ Ds.

This allows 2C-2D-3D to deny 4M.

[Kungsgeten]

I've seen the following:

2D-2H;
3C = Diamonds and another suit (3D asks)
3D = 6+ diamonds, no shortness.
3M = 6+ diamonds, short major.
3NT = 6+ diamonds, short clubs. Not forcing.
4C = 6+ diamonds, short clubs. Forcing.

You can play the same way after 2C-2D, but then bidding 3X shows clubs as the primary suit.

[gordontd]

Amusing location for this thread.

[pescetom]

 gordontd, on 2018-August-16, 00:56, said:

Amusing location for this thread.

See also where the thread about doubling a natural 2♣ opening is located.

“Everything’s got a moral, if only you can find it.” (The Duchess)

[helene_t]

Haha, reminds me of a rant I once saw here:

just paraphrasing, don't remember the exact quote said:

Why are Polish players allowed to play their weird artificial 2♣ opening? Why can't they just play the perfectly natural Standard American system?

[Chillwell1]

 Kungsgeten, on 2018-August-16, 00:03, said:

I've seen the following:

2D-2H;
3C = Diamonds and another suit (3D asks)
3D = 6+ diamonds, no shortness.
3M = 6+ diamonds, short major.
3NT = 6+ diamonds, short clubs. Not forcing.
4C = 6+ diamonds, short clubs. Forcing.

You can play the same way after 2C-2D, but then bidding 3X shows clubs as the primary suit.

What should the 2NT rebid be after 2D- 2H:? Just GF with D or anything else?
I really like that structure you had seen.

After 2C - 2D;
All rebids on 3 level is natural but with clubs as the primary suit; so 2C-2D; 3H shows 4H and 5C?

[dokoko]

 Chillwell1, on 2018-August-18, 13:00, said:

What should the 2NT rebid be after 2D- 2H:? Just GF with D or anything else?

2NT = balanced hand (see nullve's post)

 nullve, on 2018-July-24, 08:57, said:

2♦ = Weak 2M OR <range 3> BAL OR unBAL GF with primarily diamonds

[Kungsgeten]

 Chillwell1, on 2018-August-18, 13:00, said:

What should the 2NT rebid be after 2D- 2H:? Just GF with D or anything else?
I really like that structure you had seen.

After 2C - 2D;
All rebids on 3 level is natural but with clubs as the primary suit; so 2C-2D; 3H shows 4H and 5C?

Well, if you have a strong balanced option in the multi, then that hand would bid 2NT. If you don't (just weak major or strong diamonds) then I guess you could play 2NT as 6 diamonds and suitable to bid no-trumps? You could even play it as non-forcing, let's say 20-22 with 6322 and suitable for no-trump play. That can be an awkward hand if opening 1D, and might help somewhat instead of treating it as a normal 2NT opening. Another nice option could be to play 2NT as GF with 5-5 minors, since that isn't covered by the rest of the structure.

Regarding 2C-2D, I'd suggest you play the same principle as 2D-2H, so:

3C = 5+ clubs and 4 cards in another suit, 3D asks.
3D = 6+ clubs, no shortness.
3M = 6+ clubs, short major.
3NT = 6+ clubs, short diamonds. Not forcing.
4C = 6+ clubs, short diamonds, too strong for 3NT.

Note that this doesn't work if you play 2C-2D; 3NT as 25-27 balanced.

[DozyDom]

 gordontd, on 2018-August-16, 00:56, said:

Amusing location for this thread.

It's about making a 2D opening show diamonds - how much more natural do you want?

[Chillwell1]

 Kungsgeten, on 2018-August-21, 02:23, said:

Well, if you have a strong balanced option in the multi, then that hand would bid 2NT. If you don't (just weak major or strong diamonds) then I guess you could play 2NT as 6 diamonds and suitable to bid no-trumps? You could even play it as non-forcing, let's say 20-22 with 6322 and suitable for no-trump play. That can be an awkward hand if opening 1D, and might help somewhat instead of treating it as a normal 2NT opening. Another nice option could be to play 2NT as GF with 5-5 minors, since that isn't covered by the rest of the structure.

Regarding 2C-2D, I'd suggest you play the same principle as 2D-2H, so:

3C = 5+ clubs and 4 cards in another suit, 3D asks.
3D = 6+ clubs, no shortness.
3M = 6+ clubs, short major.
3NT = 6+ clubs, short diamonds. Not forcing.
4C = 6+ clubs, short diamonds, too strong for 3NT.

Note that this doesn't work if you play 2C-2D; 3NT as 25-27 balanced.

Thanks! This seems really good!!
For the 25-27 bal you could have the 2NT rebid after 2D-2H; show 25-27.
Or maybe use Kokish relay to show 25-27 in the 2C opening.