[jerdonald]

BBO forum,
Today my partner was declarer and her LHO accidentally
led a card with another one under it and exposed.
The exposed card became a minor penalty card and she
led the other card. Fine.

Later in the hand she took a trick and led a card out
of her hand when she should have led the penalty card
so that card from her hand became a minor penalty card.

The same thing happened later in the hand but this time
her partner spoke up to stop her from playing a card
from her hand. I contend that her partner shouldn't
have interfered because another one of LHO's cards could
have been disclosed to declarer.

Is her partner allowed to direct partner's action when
it could be an advantage to declarer?

Jerryd

[Vampyr]

A card led illegally, such as in failing to play a penalty card, is a major penalty card. Even if it was, as it was here evidently, a different small card of the same suit as the mPC?

But it was ruled to be a minor penalty card, OK. So when the offender was on lead the second time, how did her partner know that she was about to play, from her hand, a further small card from the same suit? All other leads, of course, would in the first and the second instance, be legal plays.

[gordontd]

Vampyr, on 2017-December-06, 02:42, said:

A card led illegally, such as in failing to play a penalty card, is a major penalty card. Even if it was, as it was here evidently, a different small card of the same suit as the mPC?

But it was ruled to be a minor penalty card, OK. So when the offender was on lead the second time, how did her partner know that she was about to play, from her hand, a further small card from the same suit? All other leads, of course, would in the first and the second instance, be legal plays.

Indeed. There are so many problems with the scenario as described that it's hard to know where to begin with them, but I imagine most of them would have been solved by calling the director as required, rather than the table making its own ruling.

[jerdonald]

BBO forum,
In the second instance the LHO pulled a card out of her hand
and was about to put it on the table when her partner told
her not to play it. The partner warning prevented her
from making a mistaken lead but it also prevented declarer
from seeing another card in LHO's hand and creating another
penalty card. Is her partner allowed to warn about this.
Seems like there shouldn't be any table talk between
partners during the play.

Jerryd

[Vampyr]

jerdonald, on 2017-December-06, 15:26, said:

BBO forum,
In the second instance the LHO pulled a card out of her hand
and was about to put it on the table when her partner told
her not to play it. The partner warning prevented her
from making a mistaken lead but it also prevented declarer
from seeing another card in LHO's hand and creating another
penalty card. Is her partner allowed to warn about this.
Seems like there shouldn't be any table talk between
partners during the play.

Jerryd

My question earlier was how could the offender's partner know that the card offender was about to lead was an illegal card?

[ahydra]

To clarify Vampyr's point, the restrictions on a minor penalty card do not require it to be played at the first legal opportunity, but rather the player with the mPC must play the penalty card before any other small (2-9) card in the same suit. They can still lead/play an honour in the suit, or a card of a different suit. My reading of the OP is that this difference between major and minor penalty cards may have been missed in the table.

So:
- in the first instance was the card that was led supposedly in error another small card in the mPC suit?
- in the second instance how did offender's partner know that offender was about to lead a small card in the mPC suit?
- next time, as Gordon said, CALL THE TD!

Oh, and this should also be in the Laws and Rulings forum, of course.

ahydra

[blackshoe]

Quote

Law 9A3: Any player, including dummy, may attempt to prevent an irregularity (but for dummy subject to Laws 42 and 43).

The answer to the OP's question is yes, he can do that. And then he should call the director, if the director has not already told the table what the ruling is on the first penalty card.

It is also true that this should be in the IBLF, probably in Simple Rulings. Unfortunately, I can't move it.

[steve2005]

Vampyr, on 2017-December-06, 16:15, said:

My question earlier was how could the offender's partner know that the card offender was about to lead was an illegal card?

Because partner mistakenly believe that the minor penalty card had to be led so had to lead the card on the table not the one in their hand. or the second card which was incorrectly ruled as a major penalty card. In any case the morale of the story is call the director don't make your own rulings.
Hopefully this was right, but even if not call the director.

[Vampyr]

steve2005, on 2017-December-08, 22:01, said:

Because partner mistakenly believe that the minor penalty card had to be led so had to lead the card on the table not the one in their hand. or the second card which was incorrectly ruled as a major penalty card. In any case the morale of the story is call the director don't make your own rulings.
Hopefully this was right, but even if not call the director.

The first penalty card could in fact have been an honour, in which case both "minor penalty cards" would actually have been major penalty cards. Yes, of course the director would have sorted it out.