[Cyberyeti]

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Are you 100% confident what 4N is undiscussed ?

Are you having another go and if so with what ?

(If you can't read the explanation on the diagram, 2H is 5-5 H and another suit, 5-9 points)

[gszes]

i will exit quietly. rho has bid 4h with not many hcp so they rate to have a lot of hearts or if not so many hearts maybe the rest of the missing hcp. If rho has lots of heart p is probably short yet they bid only 4s. Bad breaks may also play a significant part in keeping us from making slam. Sometimes preempts work and i am a big chicken bwakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. BTW i would assume 4n was rkc for spades since I would have assumed 4n was for the minors over 4h. 4n natural is just too small a target for me over 4h.

[Tramticket]

Difficult problem. A reluctant pass for me too.

4NT is RKCB for us, but no good holding 4 key cards with two fast diamond losers. I'm less sure what 5C shows - I feel that it should be a cue-bid, but ...

5S tends to imply 2 heart losers. So I'm only left with 5H to try for slam, but I'm going to take the low road on this one.

[ggwhiz]

partner promised nothing and I would only be mildly surprised if 4♠ is too high with bad breaks possible.

[nige1]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-November-20, 15:15, said:

Are you 100% confident what 4N is undiscussed ?
Are you having another go and if so with what ?
(If you can't read the explanation on the diagram, 2H is 5-5 H and another suit, 5-9 points)

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I rank

• Pass = NAT. Your double was T/O, so partner might have ♠ Q J x x x x ♥ x x ♦ x x x ♣ x x or worse.
• 4N = RKC. You expect partner to recognise it as such. A brave gamble.
• 5♥ = CUE. Perhaps directing attention to the need for help in the minors?
• 5♠ = ASK. Usually asks for ♥ control.

[Cyberyeti]

My thoughts were these. (It was cross imp teams of 8 btw)

The guy not on lead has hearts and diamonds, but the guy on the right has no reason to know that since I have 5 clubs, I'd bet my house on getting a heart lead, and any club finesse is likely to work.

Partner probably has a stiff heart, something as bad as Qxxxxx, x, xxx, J9x will probably make 6♠ and if the club holding is Qxx it definitely will on a heart lead.

So I made the simplest slam invite, I bid 6♠ and invited partner to try to make it.

I'll let others comment before revealing what happened

[steve2005]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-November-20, 18:46, said:

So I made the simplest slam invite, I bid 6♠ and invited partner to try to make it.

I'll let others comment before revealing what happened

You need partner to have diamond control and probably both black Queens and reasonable breaks. Partner could easily have this hand and not make a move.

So I don't see a choice either bid it or don't be right or wrong.

[The_Badger]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-November-20, 18:46, said:

My thoughts were these. (It was cross imp teams of 8 btw)

The guy not on lead has hearts and diamonds, but the guy on the right has no reason to know that since I have 5 clubs, I'd bet my house on getting a heart lead, and any club finesse is likely to work.

Partner probably has a stiff heart, something as bad as Qxxxxx, x, xxx, J9x will probably make 6♠ and if the club holding is Qxx it definitely will on a heart lead.

So I made the simplest slam invite, I bid 6♠ and invited partner to try to make it.

I'll let others comment before revealing what happened

It's really tough. I like the derring-do(ness) of 6♠ but, in my view, it alerts the opposition that you have ♥ control. Taking them for granted that they won't find the (potentially) killer ♦ lead is, well, taking them for granted. To me, the RKCB route followed by 5♥ is flawed - how is partner going to interpret that? - or cueing 5♥ directly leaves partner on a guess.

In these situations I work on the cards that are needed for slam to make. ♠Q or ♣Q aren't essential (assuming distribution) but either ♦A or K most likely is. One of two cards amongst three hands sounds fair odds to bid 6♠ but I guess it was the wrong bid

[wank]

it's a totally clear pass. yes you might make slam, but that's life. insert pre-empt related cliche here.

[sfi]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-November-20, 15:15, said:

Are you 100% confident what 4N is undiscussed ?

It is most likely a key-card ask. I would be very surprised if partner took (or meant) it as anything else knowing it is undiscussed.

Quote

Are you having another go and if so with what ?

Like everyone else, no. If you find a playable spot after the opponents pre-empt you, you need to have a pretty good reason to disturb it. A flat 21-count opposite a partner that hasn't shown anything isn't good enough to make it percentage.

[rmnka447]

Pass for me also. Partner's 4 ♠ could be made on anything and there is no way to know if the 4 ♥ raise is pre-emptive or what.

[Cyberyeti]

rmnka447, on 2017-November-21, 12:22, said:

Pass for me also. Partner's 4 ♠ could be made on anything and there is no way to know if the 4 ♥ raise is pre-emptive or what.

I disagree 4♠ could be anything, it WON'T be flat or he won't remove the X, just try to set it.

In fact partner's hand was Qxxxxx, x, Axx, xxx, they led a heart as anticipated, draw trumps A♣, heart ruff, club to 10 and that was +980.

[fromageGB]

And another Yes No from me.
It is a decisive "no", because I do feel my double is forcing if partner does not have good hearts and controls, and partner likely has nothing.

[Cyberyeti]

fromageGB, on 2017-November-23, 11:01, said:

And another Yes No from me.
It is a decisive "no", because I do feel my double is forcing if partner does not have good hearts and controls, and partner likely has nothing.

Do you feel partner removes on a flat heap ? Your style in this situation will largely dictate whether you think moving is an option.

[fromageGB]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-November-23, 11:15, said:

Do you feel partner removes on a flat heap ? Your style in this situation will largely dictate whether you think moving is an option.

I'm sure my partners will remove the double if they have nothing significant to contribute to a defence, as my double is not penalty but a passable takeout. A flat heap with 4 spades will bid. Your partnerships obviously have a different understanding.

[MrAce]

PASS

[RD350LC]

Tramticket, on 2017-November-20, 16:50, said:

Difficult problem. A reluctant pass for me too.

4NT is RKCB for us, but no good holding 4 key cards with two fast diamond losers. I'm less sure what 5C shows - I feel that it should be a cue-bid, but ...

5S tends to imply 2 heart losers. So I'm only left with 5H to try for slam, but I'm going to take the low road on this one.

I would pass as well-but not willingly. Pre-empts work, that is why I do them. And the opponents with their ^&#(^%_ pre-empts.

[foobar]

Pass and hope to make 4♠...if pard holds the magical hand...c'est-la-vie and payoff to preempts.