[gordontd]

helene_t, on 2017-March-06, 06:12, said:

Remember that a Polish club could be any 18+. By bidding 5♥ you suggest long hearts and nothing else. It certainly doesn't suggest club length.

Really? Why did you bid 4NT first then? I understand your point and that certain combinations would give us a problem (bidding 5D after 5C would show the reds, not the minors) but I think 5H over 5C has to be clubs and hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

dow1978, on 2017-March-07, 00:09, said:

Double 4♠

This netted 500 at my table and needed a trump promotion to get that, so even 600 will gain on the board.

Partner's hand was J109, xx, Kxxx, xxxx so the grand made in comfort with clubs 2-1 and hearts 4-2, team mates +640.

[msjennifer]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-March-07, 03:43, said:

This netted 500 at my table and needed a trump promotion to get that, so even 600 will gain on the board.

Partner's hand was J109, xx, Kxxx, xxxx so the grand made in comfort with clubs 2-1 and hearts 4-2, team mates +640.

If,in this sequence,one wants to make a realistic bid there is no bid available to show this giant of a double suiter except a take out double,then it is very unfortunate and naive to treat it as penalty double.No body will make a penalty double on any hand because we all know that opponents can even score a grand slam in spades.The double has to be a TOD.

[Cyberyeti]

msjennifer, on 2017-March-07, 05:20, said:

If,in this sequence,one wants to make a realistic bid there is no bid available to show this giant of a double suiter except a take out double,then it is very unfortunate and naive to treat it as penalty double.No body will make a penalty double on any hand because we all know that opponents can even score a grand slam in spades.The double has to be a TOD.

What do you do with a flattish 22 count ? Remember this is polish club and all big hands open 1♣ as well as some less big hands.

Do you really want to bid opposite say K, KQJx, AQJx, AQxx ?

[helene_t]

gordontd, on 2017-March-07, 02:09, said:

Really? Why did you bid 4NT first then? I understand your point and that certain combinations would give us a problem (bidding 5D after 5C would show the reds, not the minors) but I think 5H over 5C has to be clubs and hearts.

Oh yes absolutely, that's my point actually. Direct 5♥ now just shows hearts. 4NT followed by 5♥ shows hearts and a minor - presumably the minor which p did not pick, so in this case hearts and clubs.

So indeed, to show clubs along with the hearts you have to bid 4NT, not 5♥ directly.

[rhm]

I think 4NT stands out in any system.
It would never occur to me to pass 5♣, which is far too defeatist.
Sure partner could be broke and we can not make even 5♣.
It happens but my guess is once in a blue moon.
Opponents have announced a big fit and not a particularly strong combined values.

Over 5♣ the decision is really between 6♣ and 5♠.
I bid 6♣, which I do not consider very brave, but I do not want to direct a diamond lead against our slam.

Rainer Herrmann

[lamford]

4NT, showing initially the minors, but I will pull 5D to 5H and bid 5S over 5C, showing good first round controls. Grand rates to be poor, however, opposite xxxx xx Qxx Q9xx or xxx Qx xxxx xxxx so you should be aiming for 6, and there is a lot to be said for just bidding 6C.

[benlessard]

because partner surprisingly pick clubs and im 26 in the minors I think its likely hes got equal lenght in the minors.

With a 3433,??22 he should pick 5D not 5C (5D suggesting that both D & H are better than clubs is slightly better than 5C wich only show that clubs are better than diamonds) so a 3244 is starting to look likely. If hes got this shape we need little to make grand.

Hand outside 3244 are also possible 2344 & maybe 4333,4234. But in anycase I wouldnt give up on the grand.

After reading some of the comments im astounded by how many players are passing 5C wich didnt cross my mind. Note that in imps you can bid slam that are slightly under 50%, opps may sac over your bids and sometimes game was going down or its a 4 or 6 hands.

[benlessard]

Also I would play 5H direct as stronger slammish and 4NT-5m-5H as weaker. This is like the better minor lebensohl scheme.