BBO Discussion Forums: Bidding Problems for I/N/A players part 21 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1

Bidding Problems for I/N/A players part 21 Partner invites game - how well do your hands go together?

#1 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-08, 16:30

Hi - these problems should be very easy for experienced players but an I/N/A player needs to think about the right things in an auction. If you get them wrong, don't feel too bad as long as you understand the rationale for the answers. I'll provide the answers later but I'll put a hint as a spoiler. Try to solve the problem without the spoiler. Also, let me know if you would be interested in seeing more of these from time to time.

Assume you are playing Standard American (a natural system with 15-17 1NT openings and 5-card majors), IMPS, and nobody is vulnerable.

I believe this is one of my more difficult sets, although there will be plenty of material for novices.

You, as responder, have made a bid that showed a minimum hand (by bidding an old suit at the two level when partner could be minimum.) Your partner has chosen to bid on, expressing the desire to invite game despite your minimum strength. As a beginner, you would accept with 9 or 10 points, pass with 6 or 7, and hope to guess well with 8. Your partner had several choices of bids in each case to invite, the choice he made should help you determine your best final contract. Partner not only invited game; he also further described his hand to help you choose wisely. Try to visualize what partner's hand looks like and see how it fits with yours.


1.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Spoiler



2.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Spoiler



3.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Spoiler



4.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Spoiler

0

#2 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-08, 16:34

If any of the experts answer "no" to any of the part (a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?, hold off until you see the answers because at least one of them should be answered "no" IMO and you may be stating something that I intend to address.
0

#3 User is offline   nekthen 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 534
  • Joined: 2008-September-21

Posted 2017-February-09, 07:46

OK I will make a fool of myself

1. a) tempted by 2 but OK
b) 3

2. a) think I prefer 2
b) pass

3. a) I would bid 3 instead of 2
b) 3

4. a) agree. We are not strong enough to bid 2 or even 2N
b) 2N
0

#4 User is offline   Caitlynne 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 238
  • Joined: 2015-October-09

Posted 2017-February-09, 10:01

Okay, I will make a fool of myself.

Hand 1

No, I do not agree with responder's auction so far. While 2H is far from unreasonable and it is almost always a wise move to rebid a six card major suit at the 2 level when holding a weak hand, this is a time that I think it is wrong to rebid that 6 card suit. Why? Because the 2H rebid says that the hand is weak and unlikely to produce much offense unless hearts is trump. But both suggestions are untrue! There is the AK of spades, 3 card support to the T9 for partner's 5+ card diamond suit, and a side suit singleton. This hand should produce several tricks playing in diamonds. Indeed, it is not so weak, especially if partner is short in hearts (which is quite likely when partner shows 9+ cards in two other suits; it is a highly constructive hand in support of diamonds. I would feel differently about a 2H rebid with the same distribution if the heart suit were of good quality - e.g., Kxx, KJTxxx,T9x, x where the hand could be expected to produce 5 tricks on its own merits in hearts and you would be jumping for joy if partner could raise with a good hand and a heart holding like Qx. So I think 2D is a superior rebid to 2H. Now, after this 2D rebid, if partner surprises with a 2H bid (showing extra values and 3 card heart support), I would have an easy raise to the 4H game.

Given the auction, the choices are between Pass, 3D, 3NT, and 4D. Pass is misguided. Partner has made a very encouraging game try and, as already mentioned, you have a pretty darned good hand in support of diamonds. 3NT could be right, but it presumes that partner has 7 tricks to contribute - not likely even with the announced 16/17 to 18 HCP. So the choice is really between 3D and 4D. I like 3D better for two reasons: (1) It keeps 3NT in the picture if partner has a hand like QJx, Q, AKQxx, AT9x; and (2) 4D is too much of a position (and it is an admission that the 2H rebid was a really bad bid). Besides, your diamond support is not so good that you want to steer the hand toward the 11 trick minor suit game while taking the 9 trick NT game out of the picture.

Hand 2

I do agree with responder's auction so far.

The choice is between Pass and 3NT. Once again, we know that partner has about a 17 HCP hand with 5 hearts, 4 or 5 diamonds, and a club stopper - almost surely Qxx or stronger. But, without three card support, for partner's 5 card heart suit, the prospects for 9 fast tricks is bleak; even if partner has AKQxx of hearts, that suit is unlikely to produce 5 fast tricks. And when the opponents get in, they will rattle off 4 sure spade tricks. Pass seems clear.

Hand 3

Yes, I agree with responder's bidding so far.

Now it is clear that partner has a singleton (or void) in hearts - they have at least 8 hears and you have 4. Having the Ace is a good card. 5 card support for partner's 5+ card diamond suit is wonderful. And you have a working Kx in clubs. This is a marvelous hand. 3D is a weak preference and does not do this hand justice. 2NT is not unreasonable (since you have the unbid suits stopped), but the nature of your heart stopper screams suit. So does your FIVE card support for patner's diamonds. So the choice is between 4D and 5D. Though 4D is forcing, I like 5D because I won't be able to cue bid my Ace of hearts if I bid 4D and I have plenty enough to force to game.

Hand 4

I do agree with responder's bidding so far.

Again, partner has shown a hand with good (game try) values opposite a hand that has promised nothing more than minimum responding values (about 6 HCP). Partner won't have 4 card spade support, else s/he would have raised to 3S at her/his second turn. So most likely partner has 3 spades, 5 hearts, and 4 or 5 clubs (and shortness in diamonds). Since partner is hoping that your 1S response was based on a 5 card suit and was able to make a non-forcing delayed raise at the 2-level, partner need not be that strong - you should expect about 15 HCP or so. If you were minimum, you would pass. But you are not minimum - you have constructive values with 8 HCP - so you should take another bid. You have a stopper in the unbid (diamond) suit and should show it. Bid 2NT. (You could bid 3NT if you had a super maximum for this auction - e.g., Qxxx, Qx, KQxx, Jxx - but you don't so 2NT is enough. You must not punish partner for trying to get to thin 4S contract on a 5-3 fit.)
0

#5 User is offline   miamijd 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 737
  • Joined: 2015-November-14

Posted 2017-February-09, 13:49

Kaitlyn:

First three are pretty clear I think. Can't say as I completely agree on #4. Opener probably has 15-16 HCP with three-card spade support, as you point out. Certainly with 18, he would jump to 3S at his third turn to force a game. You have KQxx of diamonds opposite a stiff, and two small hearts opposite your partner's 5-card suit. Where is your source of tricks at NT? There is no way you have a game opposite anything except a perfecto from partner.

I would try to protect a plus score and pass 2S. I wonder what a simulation would show.
0

#6 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-09, 21:13

View Postnekthen, on 2017-February-09, 07:46, said:

OK I will make a fool of myself
Nobody is going to call you a fool for trying to improve your game.


View PostCaitlynne, on 2017-February-09, 10:01, said:

Okay, I will make a fool of myself.
Actually I respect your opinion and it's a bit scary that our hand evaluation on the part (b)'s differ so much. Incidentally, I agree with all your part (a)'s; your explanation of 2D rather than 2H on hand 1 is quite good.


View Postmiamijd, on 2017-February-09, 13:49, said:

Kaitlyn:

First three are pretty clear I think. Can't say as I completely agree on #4. Opener probably has 15-16 HCP with three-card spade support, as you point out. Certainly with 18, he would jump to 3S at his third turn to force a game. You have KQxx of diamonds opposite a stiff, and two small hearts opposite your partner's 5-card suit. Where is your source of tricks at NT? There is no way you have a game opposite anything except a perfecto from partner.

I would try to protect a plus score and pass 2S. I wonder what a simulation would show.
I think we totally agree on #4. I hadn't posted my answer yet. Are you confusing Kaitlyn with Caitlynne?
0

#7 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-10, 00:07

Answers: (More advanced material is in blue; this particular thread is going to get very deep for novices.)

1.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Hint: What is your partner's likely distribution? Can you take nine tricks off the top? If not, what will the opponents do upon regaining the lead?

Answer:
(a) No. 2H is a reasonable matchpoint bid hoping for a 6-2 fit that will give +110 instead of +90 or +140 instead of +110 or +130. However, this is IMPs and you will usually have four trump losers on a 6-1 fit and may not make 2H, where 2D looks pretty safe with a likely 5-3 fit, club ruffs, and the S-AK. Risking going down is a high price to pay for trying for a few extra points which may be worth 1 IMP.

You might think that you want to bid 2H in case partner has the magic 1-3-5-4 minimum that won't make another call if you rebid 2D instead. However, if partner has that 1-3-5-4 minimum, that means the opponents have about 20 points, nine spades, and only four hearts between them and neither of them could overcall spades or make a takeout double. That hand is very unlikely.

(b) First, what is partner's likely shape? Partner has a spade stopper to bid 2NT yet I have AKx. Partner must have Qxx (not four as partner didn't rebid 1S.) Partner has three spades and at least four of each minor. If partner had 3-2-4-4, partner would have an easy 1NT rebid, so partner has at least nine cards in the minors and at most one heart. Given that partner has at most three points in spades and likely none in hearts, and invited game after your minimum response, partner has substantial strength in the minors. If partner had 4 diamonds and 5 clubs, partner would have enough to reverse, so partner should have 3 spades, 1 heart, 5 diamonds, and 4 clubs.

Now, what will happen in notrump? Despite partner's strength in the minors, partner is unlikely to have nine running tricks - solid minors would give him a jump shift. (Partner could have S-QJx, H-x D-AKQJx, C-Axxx to have nine running tricks, but that hand plays pretty well with diamonds as trump also.) You'll have to give up a trick and the weak hearts will be visible in dummy, and the opponents will have the same inference about partner's distribution that you do, so a heart shift will net the opponents four heart tricks unless they are 3-3.

While 3NT is likely to need a 3-3 heart split to make, your partner's hand with much strength in the minors is likely to play quite well in 5D. Partner should have no spade losers, one heart loser, and should be able to handle the minors for one loser. I recommend that you bid 5D.

By the way, I think 3D would be non-forcing - a suggestion that 3D will play better than 2NT when declining the invitation.





2.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Hint: Again, what will the opponents do upon regaining the lead?

Answer:
(a) Yes. The 1S response is pretty clear. On your second bid, you want to keep the bidding below 2NT when you're minimum and partner could be minimum. You can pass (2D isn't forcing) or bid 2H or 2S. Whichever one of those you choose, partner will very likely pass with a minimum. If you bid 2S, you could play there with five trump to the eight opposite a singleton. Passing 2D guarantees at least a six-card fit; bidding 2H guarantees at least a seven-card fit.

(b) Like in problem 1, your partner has shown a club stopper and it is very likely to be Qxx. Partner has shown five hearts and four diamonds, so partner has at most one spade. Unless you have nine running tricks, partner is going to have to lose the lead, and the opponents who have seven spades will take four spade tricks.

However, the singleton spade that is a liability in a notrump contract is very good in a suit contract; you have no wasted high cards in spades so all your high cards will be working.

Partner has at most three points in clubs and probably nothing in spades so partner's red suits are quite good to invite game. You have one loser in the black suits, and if partner's good red suits can be held to two losers, then you can make 4H on the 5-2 fit and I suggest you bid 4H.

You may fear the opponents leading a spade and making you run out of trump. While it's possible, your spade bid may instill a fear in opening leader's hand that a spade lead will help you develop spade tricks. Also, if the opening leader has decent diamond intermediates, he may try to protect his diamond tricks by leading a trump. This will avoid being forced to trump spades and help you avoid trump losers, and one of the diamond losers may go on your fourth club if your partner has QJx or if they are 3-3. Your J may help in promoting diamonds.

If you're thinking about bidding 3C to cater to partner being 0=5=4=4, partner may think you are 4=2=2=5 or 4=2=1=6 and insist on clubs without a fourth club, leaving you to play a seven-card trump fit.





3.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Hint: Do you think you can take nine tricks off the top? How good is this hand opposite partner's likely distribution?

(a) Yes. (If 3D shows this hand for you, then 3D is fine. Some people play 3D as a limit raise; some play it weaker. In my regular partnership, this hand is too good for 3D which shows not enough to bid 2D.)

When I asked if the bidding was okay, I was assuming the other choice was 1NT. I think 2D is superior because at the time you bid it, the spades are still unbid but West might bid them over either 1NT or 2D. If that happens, 2D lets my partner compete in diamonds where 1NT leaves him in the dark about the diamond fit and may force me to make a guess whether to compete in diamonds at an uncomfortable level.

(b) Caitlynne's analysis is quite good.

You probably do not have nine running tricks and your partner has a singleton heart, so the opponents will take four hearts when they get in with something else if you play notrump. Your hand is excellent for diamond play. You have no heart losers. You have a fifth diamond - you only needed four to raise to 2D in competition (even though some play that the initial raise shows five - for those pairs playing it as a weak raise.) You have the doubleton king in clubs which means no club losers if partner has the ace, or one club loser if partner has the queen or if the 1H bidder has the ace. Your doubleton spade covers spade losers. I like 5D. However, I think this is a fantastic hand for this bidding, so fantastic that I think it's okay to cuebid 3H and then 5D suggesting that your side might have a slam despite your lowly single raise. (AKxx, x, AKxxx, Axx makes 7D a good bet - partner probably isn't quite that good but many hands offer good play for 6D and partner should know if he has one of them if you bid 3H although admittedly he might not work it out if his only loser is a club with his holding Qxx.)


4.

(a) Do you agree with the bidding so far?
(b) What should you bid now?
Hint: How good is this hand opposite partner's likely distribution?

(a) Yes. If partner had made a different game try, we would want to accept and bidding 2H gives him the opportunity to do so, as well as play in the 5-2 fit when partner is minimum.

(b) Miamijd echoed my thoughts well. Partner's 2S bid was the last thing you wanted to hear; as partner has at most one diamond and your D-KQ are wasted. Certainly your cards are poor for a suit contract, but they aren't that good in notrump either. Even though you may have two diamond stoppers (if the A is on your right), you have told the opponents what to lead and they are likely to get off to the best lead. None of your three seven-card fits look like a source of tricks, and entries to your hand to lead hearts or clubs the correct way just aren't there. In spades you might make an extra trick by ruffing a diamond in dummy, so I would just pass 2S and hope to make it. If the opponents lead trump, it might be like playing in notrump but with the opponents leading a suit that is good for you.



0

#8 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,420
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2017-February-10, 10:33

On 3, while I think the analysis is good, you're still 50%-ish to make 3NT by ducking the first two hearts, and hoping the losing card/finessing into is in West. Slightly less than 50% because 1 is likely to have more cards than 2, but still not zero by any means.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#9 User is offline   JLilly 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 127
  • Joined: 2017-January-01
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:California

Posted 2017-April-13, 00:40

Thanks for these studies, Kaitlyn. On #3, my inclination was to bid 3D the first round, given that the auction was competitive. Playing inverted minors, you have a bare minimum for a 2D call even absent competition, right? What recommendations do you have for a responder considering when deciding whether to raise opener's minor to 2m or 3m over opps' overcall, that are especially important in this situation? JL
0

Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  

3 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users