[ahydra]

IMPs

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You certainly want to be in 5, though 6 made when declarer guessed diamonds.

ahydra

[MrAce]

• East should bid 3 NT. East does not have good enough diamonds to offer vs a void or stiff. East has enough values to bid game.
• West can not pass, 4♦ is forcing. You can not spare this 4d bid for hands "I do not want to play game but I do not want to play 3 spade either" Previous 2 dia is limited but still wide (11-16 if diamonds were not good enough to jump or has side 4 card ♥ that could not or did not want to reverse with 15)
• Even if 4 dia was non forcing, West has the max and Ax diamond that pd bid 3 times.

So both really butchered this.

[rmnka447]

I agree completely with Mr. Ace.

If opener had something like -- Void Axx KJ9xxxx Kxx --- where there's not enough for game, then opener has to pass and let partner struggle in 3 ♠. I know that may not be ideal, but on misfit hands you just shouldn't keep on bidding trying to "improve" the contract. Normally all you're doing then is rising the set penalty.

So any action over 3 ♠ has to suggest a maxi minimum opener and be an attempt to find game. If opener had 2+ ♠, then raising ♠ would be right. So any other bid denies ♠ tolerance. I like 3 NT as it shows the side suit stoppers and may be the best spot if responder has a broken ♠ suit.

[Kaitlyn S]

ahydra, on 2016-September-07, 16:41, said:

IMPs

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You certainly want to be in 5, though 6 made when declarer guessed diamonds.

ahydra

East has a 5 loser hand (4 1/2 when adjusted for aces/queens.) East can make a slam opposite
Jxxx, xx, Axx, QJzx or Jxxxx, Qxxx, Qx, Ax*, and yet both of these hands have an easy pass after opener rebids 2D. Sure, the hand could be a misfit because partner responded 1S, but partner hasn't denied some diamonds so I can't see how just bidding 2D is enough.

* I'm waiting to hear how the defenders are going to lead DA and another trump against 6D from Axxx, xxxx, Ax, xxx or KQxx, xxxx, Ax, xxx.

[mike777]

could not disagree more strongly with all of the above comments.


Hate 2d and I often bid Al Roth style. Even playing Bergen/Barry crane style I rebid 3d.


East has an easy 3d non force rebid. guys you have 7d tell partner

If west confuses the issue with 3s now then I blame west.

[The_Badger]

hi ahydra

Both need some hard labour, breaking rocks as opposed to playing bridge

East's hand comes out at a juicy 17.05 on the Kaplan & Rubens hand evaluator. Personally I don't like rebidding 3♦ with a void in my partner's suit and a long, broken suit myself, but does 2♦ do this hand justice?

As for West, what was he/she thinking of passing 4♦? He/she must have been on his/her cellphone to his/her martial partner discussing options on the hire purchase agreement on the car and forgot to bid!

Send them down!

[wank]

Inviting as west is too conservative, especially if it involves jumping to 3s which is a bad method and more especially if it involves jumping to 3s on a poor suit. Better to force and describe the hand better.

Still east not trying 3nt is too pathetic. He doesn't need much at all.

I don't agree about 4d being forcing - i don't see the need for it after a limited rebid and an invite, but still, west could wake up and realise 5 is going to have play.

[cherdano]

MrAce, on 2016-September-07, 18:45, said:

• East should bid 3 NT. East does not have good enough diamonds to offer vs a void or stiff. East has enough values to bid game.
• West can not pass, 4♦ is forcing. You can not spare this 4d bid for hands "I do not want to play game but I do not want to play 3 spade either" Previous 2 dia is limited but still wide (11-16 if diamonds were not good enough to jump or has side 4 card ♥ that could not or did not want to reverse with 15)
• Even if 4 dia was non forcing, West has the max and Ax diamond that pd bid 3 times.

So both really butchered this.

Just two points where I disagree:
- 4♦ cannot be forcing - East is limited by his 2♦ bid.
- You forgot to criticize 3♠. You have 12 nice hcp including 2 aces, a fit for partner, and you'll be better placed to find the right strain if you force to game. Force to game.

All the rest of Timo's post I agree with.

[MrAce]

cherdano, on 2016-September-08, 07:26, said:

Just two points where I disagree:
- 4♦ cannot be forcing - East is limited by his 2♦ bid.

As this poll suggests it is not clear forcing or nonforcing with an overwhelming majority view.

http://bridgewinners...orcing-for-you/

I came to conclusion, as I wrote there, despite taking it as forcing here, that best use of that 4♦ is; NF but not a sign off either. Seeks cooperation.

Quote

- You forgot to criticize 3♠. You have 12 nice hcp including 2 aces, a fit for partner, and you'll be better placed to find the right strain if you force to game. Force to game.

That is a gf hand for most openers. It is invitation against my opening style and my pds know it. And I am not talking about only shapely low hcp openings. All 11 balanced hcps (when playing with people who knows this) But you are correct that this is probably not the case for OP.

[Cyberyeti]

Playing standard methods, I think this is a 3♦ rebid.

If you play some sort of Bourke relay, it helps here and you can afford to bid 2♦.

1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥(art asking)-3N (max at least 6 diamonds as don't have 4 hearts or 4 clubs or a balanced hand) now you can bid on or not but you're in at least game.

[Kaitlyn S]

mike777, on 2016-September-07, 23:17, said:

could not disagree more strongly with all of the above comments.
If west confuses the issue with 3s now then I blame west.

Since 3S is forcing over 1D-1S-3D, what is wrong with it and what would you prefer West bid instead? I wouldn't bid 3S with anything less in spades but opener can easily have three spades or a doubleton honor and jump to 3D. And 4S will often be the best spot even opposite two small.

[ahydra]

Thanks all for the replies. I was East.

You are allowed to be maximum for your bid (2D) sometimes The thing with 3D is, most of the time partner is going to bid 3NT even with say 8 points - it's going to have absolutely no chance opposite some average hand like AJxx xxxx x QJxx, as the diamonds resemble Swiss cheese. It would be a whole different story if the HA was the DA. Likewise this was my theory behind not bidding 3NT over 3S; maybe I'm too pessimistic - if partner is going to only have one diamond, there's no reason it can't be a singleton A or Q - but coupled with the fact communications are likely to be awkward and his spades useless (e.g. AQJxxx Qxx x Qxx), I felt 3NT would need a lot of things to go right.

Partner passed 4D because he was also wary that his spades were useless. What I tried to convince him of, and that he did later realise, was the value of Ax in diamonds where he could have held a void - not only is that of immense help in a diamond contract, but also implies I must have a bit more stuff outside diamonds. He was reluctant to force to game with 3C because, quote, "I've forced to game on a lot of 12's and you've gone off". My declarer play has improved a lot recently so I was a bit insulted We open nearly all unbalanced 11s, so he could have a point that with a misfit we could get too high, but it seems a bit wimpish to not treat this as FG as opposite most ordinary openers with a doubleton spade, 4S will have decent play.

ahydra