[ahydra]

What are the standard meanings of these? We play 5cM weak NT, but I imagine they'll be the same with a strong NT.

1) 1♣-(1♦)-1♥-(p); 2♦
2) unopposed, 1♥-2♣; 2♦-2♠ (4SF to game); 3♠

Thanks,

ahydra

[Vampyr]

1) Some play as GF. Some promise ♥ support. I think that "standard" is GF, otherwise undefined.

2) Standard I think is natural. Many play fifth-suit forcing, asking for more information.

[Stephen Tu]

Vampyr, on 2016-February-04, 09:39, said:

1) Some play as GF. Some promise ♥ support. I think that "standard" is GF, otherwise undefined.

Standard is GF. I think anyone who thinks it should be used to promise heart support is just way confused with other auctions, like 1H-(2c)-3c. Really it should deny (4cd) heart support IMO. You have 2H, 3H, 4H, 3D, 4D, 3S, 4C available to raise hearts. Seems reasonable to have a call for strong hands without hearts than to reserve it for a 7th way to make a strong heart raise?

[Vampyr]

Stephen Tu, on 2016-February-04, 16:09, said:

Standard is GF. I think anyone who thinks it should be used to promise heart support is just way confused with other auctions, like 1H-(2c)-3c. Really it should deny (4cd) heart support IMO. You have 2H, 3H, 4H, 3D, 4D, 3S, 4C available to raise hearts. Seems reasonable to have a call for strong hands without hearts than to reserve it for a 7th way to make a strong heart raise?

You are correct, but people can and do confuse these auctions.

[Zelandakh]

#1 is a general force that is usually either a very strong one-suiter or a 2NT rebid without a diamond stopper. Most will also include some good heart raises here too.
#2 is usually played as natural although some good arguments for that not being the best option were made the last time it came up on here.

[ahydra]

Interesting that people mentioned the possibility of interpreting the 2D cuebid as a heart raise. That was exactly what happened at the table! My hand was something like AKQJ Jx Qxx AJ10x, and after the auction shown partner thought I had hearts and we landed in 4H on a 4-2 fit, lose 14 IMPs with 3NT cold. Obviously the intention was to ask for a stop in diamonds.

On the second one I was wondering how one can ask for half a stop. I think on the actual hand I bid 2NT with my Qxx stop in spades rather than 3S. In this case it was OK - partner raised to 3NT and there were 9 on top - but on other hands, particularly when one of the opponents has overcalled in the suit so that you can't hope for a 4-4 split, it might be useful to see if partner has Qx, Jx, etc.

I suppose "natural" may come in handy if partner has say four small spades, but that must be rather rare (indeed it's impossible on this auction as 1S is natural and forcing).

ahydra

[Zelandakh]

ahydra, on 2016-February-06, 06:59, said:

On the second one I was wondering how one can ask for half a stop. I think on the actual hand I bid 2NT with my Qxx stop in spades rather than 3S. In this case it was OK - partner raised to 3NT and there were 9 on top - but on other hands, particularly when one of the opponents has overcalled in the suit so that you can't hope for a 4-4 split, it might be useful to see if partner has Qx, Jx, etc.

A method that used to be popular in some circles is for Responder's repeat of the 4th suit after a non-NT 3rd bid from Opener checking back for a half a stopper. Another idea is for 2NT not to promise more than half a stopper and use a repeat of the 4th suit as a check back for a full stop. I think a more popular way is for Opener to show a half stopper by first making a non-NT call and then bidding NT at their 4th turn though.