Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?
#17441
Posted 2021-January-06, 16:23
1. Certify the electoral vote.
2. Impeachment. Can be done in days if everyone agrees.
#17442
Posted 2021-January-06, 16:31
kenberg, on 2021-January-06, 16:10, said:
"Donald Trump has made it very clear that he does not accept the results of the election and he does not intend to willing accept the transfer of the presidency to Joe Biden. We, the undersigned, do accept that Joe Biden has won the presidency, we accept the election is legitimate, and we are determined to see that the presidency is transferred to Joe Biden on January 20. Ongoing events have caused great concern. We very much hope that Donald Trump will acknowledge that Joe Biden will rightfully and peacefully become president on January 20. We will assure that the transfer of the presidency takes place, that will be done regardless. We hope that Donald trump, starting immediately, will acknowledge that this transfer will take place, but we are prepared to do what is necessary to assure that the transfer does take place. "
No doubt someone could write it better.
My attempt to come up with something better:
Quote
#17443
Posted 2021-January-06, 16:42
Ben Sasse, Republican Senator from Nebraska said:
Edit: Sasse said this, not Jake Tapper.
#17444
Posted 2021-January-06, 16:49
I am waiting for Trump to tweet something along the lines that "since the Senate + House did not complete the certification on the day mandated as per the US Constitution, they have failed to approve phony Joe Biden. This means I will remain in office until the next Presidential election in 2024"
#17445
Posted 2021-January-06, 17:21
kenberg, on 2021-January-06, 16:10, said:
We need some top Rs and Ds to get together. McC and Pelosi certainly but we need others. They need to collectively say something like:
"Donald Trump has made it very clear that he does not accept the results of the election and he does not intend to willing accept the transfer of the presidency to Joe Biden. We, the undersigned, do accept that Joe Biden has won the presidency, we accept the election is legitimate, and we are determined to see that the presidency is transferred to Joe Biden on January 20. Ongoing events have caused great concern. We very much hope that Donald Trump will acknowledge that Joe Biden will rightfully and peacefully become president on January 20. We will assure that the transfer of the presidency takes place, that will be done regardless. We hope that Donald trump, starting immediately, will acknowledge that this transfer will take place, but we are prepared to do what is necessary to assure that the transfer does take place. "
No doubt someone could write it better.
But we have reached a crisis. There really is very little time to debate this, maybe 24 hours, maybe 48. But it looks very much like this will go very badly. We must do what we can to make it go better, but we must be prepared to deal with reality if Donald Trump continues on the path he has taken. That road leads to very dark places, but we have to deal with it as it happens.
Who i the Republican Party will support tis? A good question, but those who deny the reality we face are not fit to be in any position of leadership.
This is serious. Serious issues must be dealt with. And no dawdling.
I am hoping people like McConnell understand that this is no longer simply politics. The president at the moment is still Donald Trump, and as such is commander-in-chief of the military. There must have been a reason to put in sycophants in the DOD - perhaps so there could be no national guard responses? It no longer matters. Take him out of office now - regardless of method. Et tu Brute? Once out, he needs to be prosecuted.
#17446
Posted 2021-January-06, 18:23
I doubt that Pelosi or McConnell or anyone else will enjoy this. It is necessary.
#17447
Posted 2021-January-06, 20:26
shyams, on 2021-January-06, 16:49, said:
I am waiting for Trump to tweet something along the lines that "since the Senate + House did not complete the certification on the day mandated as per the US Constitution, they have failed to approve phony Joe Biden. This means I will remain in office until the next Presidential election in 2024"
At least for now, Twitter and Facebook have suspended the Manchurian President's account due to his part in the violence at the Capitol building.
#17448
Posted 2021-January-06, 20:31
kenberg, on 2021-January-06, 18:23, said:
I doubt that Pelosi or McConnell or anyone else will enjoy this. It is necessary.
I saw a news report that cabinet members were talking about invoking the 25th Amendment. Another news report says that Pence was the one who called out the DC National Guard to restore order at the Capitol building. The president is the commander in chief, not the VP, so we'll have to wait to find out what happened since I don't think the Insurrectionist in Chief would have done anything to stop the domestic terrorists.
#17449
Posted 2021-January-06, 23:37
#17451
Posted 2021-January-07, 01:35
Winstonm, on 2021-January-06, 23:37, said:
Be reasonable, they were cleaners. The police made a small mistake. You can't let one small slip-up ruin a whole system!
#17454
Posted 2021-January-07, 03:16
Sure it's not quite legally kosher, but we aren't German. (Also, there's precedent in the form of the last year and a half of Woodrow Wilson's presidency after he had a severe stroke.)
(If they could get Mrs. Trump to help, it could be really fun to go further and gaslight him by pretending no one can see or hear him.)
#17455
Posted 2021-January-07, 05:03
I sai earlier I thought we had 24 or maybe 48 hours to address the situation, t show that the president's actins will be dealt with. Counting the electoral votes is a better way of saying this than the announcement I was suggesting. Now I think we have another short window. If Donald Trump wants to leave office in the normal way, he has a very short period to make this clear. We need an announcement, sometime today, that he now accepts the result of the election, he will be leaving office on January 20, and he urges his supporters to accept this [peaceful transfer of power. He has, until now, made it clear that he does not accept this transfer of power and his urging of his followers has not been to be peaceful. Lacking a clear statement that he now accepts this transfer, we must deal with the fact that he does not. Exactly how to deal with it I am not sure, but it must be dealt with on the basis that he has refused to accept this reality.
We have had four years to understand just who and what Trump is. Much of this should have been addressed long ago. But he is still able to do a lot of harm in the next two week. If that is his choice, and I suspect that it will be his choice, them we must deal with it. And that means now.
#17457
Posted 2021-January-07, 07:34
"Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th. I have always said we would continue our fight to ensure that only legal votes were counted. While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it's only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again!"
He does not say what it will be an orderly transition to, he says it is the end of his first term without acknowledging that, at least in 2021, there will be no second term. He says he will continue to fight.
No, this does not do it. It sounds like something a lawyer would write, requiring a close second reading to see what, if anything, it actually says.
He started this. If Donald Trump now wishes to cooperate in a peaceful transfer of the presidency to Joe Biden, he needs to be unequivocal. There is very good reason to believe that he plans no such thing, and this statement does not help at all.
#17458
Posted 2021-January-07, 08:33
pilowsky, on 2021-January-07, 01:35, said:
Yes, how true, Dimitri.
Myself, I still think the Caligula model of removal from office fits the situation best.
#17459
Posted 2021-January-07, 08:45
Quote
#17460
Posted 2021-January-07, 09:55
kenberg, on 2021-January-07, 07:34, said:
Quite apart from anything else, he's only referring to "an orderly transition on January 20th" (my emphasis), which hardly gets the job done properly (as we've already been seeing with, for example, Defense and Budget Management).
What are the chances of Biden turning out to be President 47?
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