[hokum]

You're North - what does partner's double mean?

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And one more - what does your double mean? Which kinds of hands would you make it on?

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Thanks

[ahydra]

First one should probably be penalty, though I'm really not sure. (What can partner have? If he had a TOX of 3S then he surely had one of 2S; if he had a stop in spades and enough for 3NT he would just bid 3NT. It sounds like he had a penalty pass of 2S, hoping for a reopening X.)

Second one is for takeout - a typical hand type would be a maximum opener, or at least some extras with no clear direction like x AQxx AKxxx Kxx. Playing a weak NT, this can also be a strong NT without a stop in spades.

ahydra

[wank]

yes the first one's penalties. if you had a takeout shape you'd have acted already.

if you couldn't double for penalties here, advancer would be able to raise pre-empts every time he got dealt a void and a yarborough.

[FrancesHinden]

The links don't work at all for me (using Safari)
Is there some reason not simply to post the hand here?

[diana_eva]

FrancesHinden, on 2015-July-06, 14:11, said:

The links don't work at all for me (using Safari)
Is there some reason not simply to post the hand here?

Fixed the OP, he used images instead of the hand editor function, I guess those images weren't showing for you.

[karlson]

ahydra, on 2015-July-06, 04:10, said:

First one should probably be penalty, though I'm really not sure. (What can partner have? If he had a TOX of 3S then he surely had one of 2S; if he had a stop in spades and enough for 3NT he would just bid 3NT. It sounds like he had a penalty pass of 2S, hoping for a reopening X.)

Second one is for takeout - a typical hand type would be a maximum opener, or at least some extras with no clear direction like x AQxx AKxxx Kxx. Playing a weak NT, this can also be a strong NT without a stop in spades.

ahydra

I agree (about the second double being takeout) except that the example hand (x AQxx AKxxx Kxx) doesn't look like "no clear direction" to me, it looks more like a slam try in clubs. I would bid 4♠ with that hand. xx Axx AKxxxx Kx seems closer to the mark for double.

The first one is definitely penalty.

[jdonn]

I think the first one could reasonably be played as 2-way. Penalty is the standard meaning though.

The second one is just extra values and nothing else good to bid. This may be close to the same as takeout, but I don't think of it that way.

[SteveMoe]

Both are Balance of Power Doubles.

First is Cooperative Penalty. Doubleton ♦ or fewer, with 3♠ cards. Likely 3=3=2=5 with 11 HCP or so.

Second is Cooperative Penalty. Doubleton ♣ or fewer, maybe 4♥ cards, 2-3 ♠ cards, perhaps 2=4=5=2 or 3=3=5=2

These doubles suggest playing at the 4-level is not safe, that we do not have an 8-card trump fit, that we do have .GTE. 23 HCP. and that the opponents have gotten too high for their trump fit.

Pure penalty doubles when opponents have bid and raised their suit are extremely rare. Cooperative Penalty hands come up more often. recommend Colchamiro's book for a fuller discussion.

[ahydra]

karlson, on 2015-July-06, 14:30, said:

I agree (about the second double being takeout) except that the example hand (x AQxx AKxxx Kxx) doesn't look like "no clear direction" to me, it looks more like a slam try in clubs. I would bid 4♠ with that hand.

Can partner not bid 2C on a 4-card suit here?

ahydra

[helene_t]

ahydra, on 2015-July-07, 04:59, said:

Can partner not bid 2C on a 4-card suit here?

ahydra

He would have to be exactly 4333 then without a spade stopper. Vulnerable opps should have a 9 card fit.

[jodepp]

1) Pretty clear that this X is penalty-ish - either 'I would have passed a reopening double of 2♠ by you' or 'I have a much better hand than my first pass indicates', maybe a hand with 10-12 HCP that couldn't/didn't make a negative double earlier.

A takeout meaning is possible (a very weak hand with length in the unbid suits) but I wouldn't wheel that bid out unless I had specifically discussed it with partner,... and the author did say the situation was undiscussed.

2) The second double's modern meaning is 'cards with no clear bid', asking for partner's help. Partner can convert the double with a balanced hand with a few clubs, or otherwise bid what's in front of his nose.

[karlson]

ahydra, on 2015-July-07, 04:59, said:

Can partner not bid 2C on a 4-card suit here?

ahydra

2♣ shows 5 to me. If by chance he bid it on 3-4 in the minors, it must be a very good hand (else just pass) and hopefully he can correct clubs to diamonds.

[Phil]

karlson, on 2015-July-07, 21:50, said:

2♣ shows 5 to me. If by chance he bid it on 3-4 in the minors, it must be a very good hand (else just pass) and hopefully he can correct clubs to diamonds.

Tonight I bid 2♣ on Qxx AKx Axx QJxx.

[karlson]

Phil, on 2015-July-07, 22:32, said:

Tonight I bid 2♣ on Qxx AKx Axx QJxx.

I'd call that a very good hand. 6♦ seems like it'll be a great spot opposite a 1453 prime 16-count (which is what started this discussion).

[Zelandakh]

karlson, on 2015-July-08, 00:06, said:

(which is what started this discussion).

What started the discussion seems to be the idea of bidding 2♣ over a 2♠ overcall. It clearly makes sense to both of you so I am missing something but I have no idea of the meaning of 2♣ by any player in the auction starting (P) - 1♦ - (2♠).

[lycier]

First double = Penalty
Second double = Maximal Double

[crdshrk]

First double is, "I have values, but no clue where this supposed to be played. Make a decision for us." Giving you a chance to bid 3N if you have spades stopped/double stopped (or leave in for penalty).

Second is penalty. Probably has something like AJT Qxx Qx AQxxx. If you are void in spades, expect partner to have four with something like AT9x Kx Kx AJTxx.

[crdshrk]

Oops. Got my minor suit bidding backwards on second hand. Probably has something like AJT KQx AKxxx Qx or AT9x KJxx AQJxx x.