[benlessard]

openings

2D = 4415 -1 card
2C = 6C
1D = could be 2.

Im wondering if the numbers of clubs will significantly be lower than the number of diamonds after a 1D opening. Im hoping that some hand pattern frequencies already exist.

Im thinking about a suction defense something like

(1D)--??

1NT= clubs or 5S+5m
2C = D or 5S+5H
2D = D+H

[steve2005]

Precision 1♦ has diamonds too often to be worth doing much special. maybe your takeouts don't promise or deny clubs.

If doesn't have diamonds is balanced or has clubs.

[Free]

Lets see:
- Balanced hands: all are opened 1♦
- Semi balanced hands (5m422): all are opened 1♦
- 4=4=1=4: only with stiff Ace or King <-> 4=4=4=1: all are opened 1♦
- 44+ minor (no 5M): all are opened 1♦, except 6♣-5♦ (and the obvious ultra rare 7♣-6♦)
- 6+♣: almost all are opened 2♣ (except with 6♣322 with ♣765432 for example) <-> 6+♦: all are opened 1♦
- 4-1M with 5-3m: all are opened 1♦

I hope I haven't forgotten any. As you can see, the difference is quite small. Most hands are opened 1♦ even with the minors reversed. 4=4=4=1 and 6+♦ are the main exceptions. So I guess the average amount of ♣s is a little lower than ♦s.

[phoenix214]

If you want to defend with something destructive vs 1D you sure can do that - but it messes up your constructive auctions as a price.
I like the idea - 1NT - Raptor, X = Majors, pass then X - strong balanced (2NT might be okei as natural as well). Only problem is in comp telling when pass = strong and balanced, so that needs some rules. Also when it goes 1D-p-p, you balance with almost anything, unless you think if pd has strong bal and you dont see any good place to play(4333 7 count for example)

[Trick13]

This script in http://www.bridgebas...aler/dealer.php



north_limited_opener = hcp(north) >= 11 and hcp(north) <= 15
north_1NT = hcp(north) >= 13 and hcp(north) <= 15 and shape(north, any 4333 + any 4432 + any 5332 - 5xxx -x5xx)
north_1S = north_limited_opener and spades(north) >= 5 and hearts(north) <= spades(north) and diamonds(north) < 7 and clubs(north) < 7
north_1H = north_limited_opener and hearts(north) >= 5 and hearts(north) > spades(north) and diamonds(north) < 7 and clubs(north) < 7
north_2C = north_limited_opener and clubs(north) >= 6 and clubs(north) > diamonds(north) and not (north_1H or north_1S)
north_2D = north_limited_opener and shape(north, 4414, 4405, 3415, 4315)

north_1D = north_limited_opener and not (north_1H or north_1S or north_1NT or north_2C or north_2D)

condition north_1D

produce 100000
action frequency "diamonds" (diamonds(north), 3, 7, clubs(north), 1, 5)


Yields this


Frequency -------clubs-------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6+ SumDiamonds 2 0 0 0 2235 4498 6182 0 12915 3 0 0 2248 6408 8052 6125 0 22833 4 0 1853 4493 7979 8419 5689 0 28433 5 271 2866 6266 6221 5566 1861 0 23051 6 289 1801 3280 3043 1349 291 33 10086 7 156 589 859 522 164 29 2 2321 8+ 50 123 129 45 13 1 0 361Sum 766 7232 17275 26453 28061 20178 35 100000

[blackshoe]

Trick13, on 2015-May-18, 18:58, said:

This script in http://www.bridgebas...aler/dealer.php

[snip]

Yields this


Frequency -------clubs-------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6+ SumDiamonds 2 0 0 0 2235 4498 6182 0 12915 3 0 0 2248 6408 8052 6125 0 22833 4 0 1853 4493 7979 8419 5689 0 28433 5 271 2866 6266 6221 5566 1861 0 23051 6 289 1801 3280 3043 1349 291 33 10086 7 156 589 859 522 164 29 2 2321 8+ 50 123 129 45 13 1 0 361Sum 766 7232 17275 26453 28061 20178 35 100000

I have no idea how to read that.

[Trick13]

blackshoe, on 2015-May-19, 16:03, said:

I have no idea how to read that.

Whoops. Looked Ok in the preview.

Clubs
0 - 0.8%
1 - 7.2%
2 - 17.4%
3 - 26.5%
4 - 28.0%
5 - 20.1%
6+ - 0.0%

Diamonds
2 - 12.9%
3 - 22.8%
4 - 28.5%
5 - 22.9%
6 - 10.1%
7 - 2.3%
8+ - 0.4%

[Free]

Trick13, on 2015-May-19, 17:44, said:

Whoops. Looked Ok in the preview.

Clubs
0 - 0.8%
1 - 7.2%
2 - 17.4%
3 - 26.5%
4 - 28.0%
5 - 20.1%
6+ - 0.0%

Diamonds
2 - 12.9%
3 - 22.8%
4 - 28.5%
5 - 22.9%
6 - 10.1%
7 - 2.3%
8+ - 0.4%

Ok, so on average: 3.34 ♣s vs 4.03 ♦s

[steve2005]

Free, on 2015-May-20, 12:08, said:

Ok, so on average: 3.34 ♣s vs 4.03 ♦s

So, does this support keeping basically the same system or changing you system completely over a nebulous Precision 1♦?

[benlessard]

IMO it just confirm that two suiters with D are almost as important as 5C+5M.

Like (1D)--2NT for 5H+ one minor make some sense.

[Free]

Sadly the averages don't tell us much. For each hand that has 2 ♦s there's a hand with 6+♦s as well, but that makes the average around 4. In case you have ♦s and opener is short, you want to bid them while you have the chance.

I usually keep almost the entire system, except:
1♦-2♦ = natural
1♦-2♥ = 55+M weak
1♦-3♦ = 55+M strong enough for 3-level
This only sacrifices the weak 2♥ overcall which isn't worth much anyway.

[benlessard]

2 - 17.4%
3 - 26.5%
4 - 28.0%

2 - 12.9%
3 - 22.8%
4 - 28.5%

Agree that the average doesnt tell much but these numbers tell a lot.

36% that opener got 2D or 3D vs seems like a number high enough to consider stuff like 2S= 5S+5m(any) and 2NT for 5H+5m(any) or a suction defense.

[Trick13]

benlessard, on 2015-May-21, 12:06, said:

2 - 17.4%
3 - 26.5%
4 - 28.0%

2 - 12.9%
3 - 22.8%
4 - 28.5%

Agree that the average doesnt tell much but these numbers tell a lot.

36% that opener got 2D or 3D vs seems like a number high enough to consider stuff like 2S= 5S+5m(any) and 2NT for 5H+5m(any) or a suction defense.

Assuming you are 7 to 15 hcp for 2S or 2NT, using this script ...

================
north_limited_opener = hcp(north) >= 11 and hcp(north) <= 15
north_1NT = hcp(north) >= 13 and hcp(north) <= 15 and shape(north, any 4333 + any 4432 + any 5332 - 5xxx -x5xx)
north_1S = north_limited_opener and spades(north) >= 5 and hearts(north) <= spades(north) and diamonds(north) < 7 and clubs(north) < 7
north_1H = north_limited_opener and hearts(north) >= 5 and hearts(north) > spades(north) and diamonds(north) < 7 and clubs(north) < 7
north_2C = north_limited_opener and clubs(north) >= 6 and clubs(north) > diamonds(north) and not (north_1H or north_1S)
north_2D = north_limited_opener and shape(north, 4414, 4405, 3415, 4315)

north_1D = north_limited_opener and not (north_1H or north_1S or north_1NT or north_2C or north_2D)

east_2S = hcp(east) >= 7 and hcp(east) <= 15 and spades(east) >= 5 and (clubs(east) >= 5 or diamonds(east) >= 5)
east_2NT = hcp(east) >= 7 and hcp(east) <= 15 and hearts(east) >= 5 and (clubs(east) >= 5 or diamonds(east) >= 5)

condition north_1D

produce 100000
action frequency "east_2NT" (east_2NT, 0, 1),
frequency "east_2S" (east_2S, 0, 1)
===============

Tells you that you will have these hands about 1.3% of the time (each).

[Trick13]

You will have 7-15 hcp 5+M-5+M 1% of the time.
You will have 7-15 hcp and 5+diamonds 9%, with an 8+fit 49% of the time
You will have 6 hearts and 5-10 hcp 2.7% of the time.

I guess this implies 2D should be natural, 2H should be weak H.


When allowed, we bid 2D as a multi (weak either major, nv could be 5-cards), and 2M as 6-cards, 10-13.

[SteelWheel]

The key term here is in the title of the post: 2+

I run across Precision pairs frequently who promise only one or even zero diamonds for their 1♦ opening bid (at times, I've even been one-half of some of those pairs, usually at my partner's insistence--personally I don't like it, but I reluctantly go along). I agree that 2+ is not worth treating much differently--but I think there is probably a better way to handle the "Zero diamond" approach, depending on what hand-types the opponents are likely to include in their 1♦ opening bid.

[Trick13]

SteelWheel, on 2015-May-22, 01:42, said:

The key term here is in the title of the post: 2+

I run across Precision pairs frequently who promise only one or even zero diamonds for their 1♦ opening bid (at times, I've even been one-half of some of those pairs, usually at my partner's insistence--personally I don't like it, but I reluctantly go along). I agree that 2+ is not worth treating much differently--but I think there is probably a better way to handle the "Zero diamond" approach, depending on what hand-types the opponents are likely to include in their 1♦ opening bid.

Our precision 0+♦ has:

5+♣ - 20%
5+♦ - 20%
14-16 (semi-)bal NT - 60%.

I'd recommend 2♦ natural over that.
The 5-5 major hands are not that frequent and are not too much of a problem to bid naturally when they do come up.