BBO Discussion Forums: Opening a 22pt hand at the four level - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Opening a 22pt hand at the four level

#21 User is offline   Trinidad 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Joined: 2005-October-09
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2015-May-21, 10:30

 ezyang, on 2015-May-21, 10:26, said:

On the actual table, your partner held:

Qxxx x Tx QJxxxx

Slam works on a (working) finesse.

Fortunately, partner balanced after your obvious pass, right? ;)

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
0

#22 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,614
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-May-21, 10:40

 Trinidad, on 2015-May-21, 10:30, said:

Fortunately, partner balanced after your obvious pass, right? ;)

Rik


Just balanced? Weak. Partner obviously jumped to 6S ;)
Wayne Somerville
0

#23 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,273
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2015-May-21, 10:51

 diana_eva, on 2015-May-21, 10:19, said:

Yes. Double is a reasonable option. I personally would double, but I get these doubles wrong too many times, so I refrained from arguing in favor of X because I do not know what's best.

If it were such a clear call, the hand wouldn't have been posted at all.


I agree that double could be a reasonable call but without a solid agreement with partner double has lots of risk. For example, is partner forced to bid again over 5D when partner pulls the 5C bid? Will partner know to correct to spades with equal length? Should he rebid a 6 card club suit? How would he know the relative lengths of the spades and diamonds?

These questions always seem to have two answers: the real and the right. The right is the answer that assumes a perfect partnership; the real represents what we should bid most of the time under most circumstances. For me and my game, I have to keep it real.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#24 User is offline   The_Badger 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,125
  • Joined: 2013-January-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, Chess, Film, Literature, Herbal Medicine, Nutrition

Posted 2015-May-21, 12:20

Anyway...back to the question Ezyang posed...what to bid? Both sides vulnerable, a 3♥first-position opener raised to 4♥, my question would be what sort of hand does the 4♥ bidder have? With a total bust, and a shapely hand and a ♥ fit, wouldn't responder be making life a bit more difficult by bidding 5♥ (we assume that is a pre-emptive raise rather than a slam try) so the 4♥ bid is based on shape, some values and a ♥ fit, which basically leaves your partner with nothing more than a near Yarborough and some shape too.

You have a good 5 card ♠ suit, first round control of ♥ (that's important) and a good hand. X throws the ball into partner's court - and more often than not he's going to respond 5♣. Slam may be there but 4♠ just seems the most sensible bid available.
0

#25 User is offline   ArtK78 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,786
  • Joined: 2004-September-05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Galloway NJ USA
  • Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
    Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.

Posted 2015-May-21, 12:55

 The_Badger, on 2015-May-21, 12:20, said:

Anyway...back to the question Ezyang posed...what to bid? Both sides vulnerable, a 3♥first-position opener raised to 4♥, my question would be what sort of hand does the 4♥ bidder have? With a total bust, and a shapely hand and a ♥ fit, wouldn't responder be making life a bit more difficult by bidding 5♥ (we assume that is a pre-emptive raise rather than a slam try) so the 4♥ bid is based on shape, some values and a ♥ fit, which basically leaves your partner with nothing more than a near Yarborough and some shape too.

You have a good 5 card ♠ suit, first round control of ♥ (that's important) and a good hand. X throws the ball into partner's court - and more often than not he's going to respond 5♣. Slam may be there but 4♠ just seems the most sensible bid available.

Both sides are vulnerable. That might inhibit East from jumping to 5♥.
0

#26 User is offline   daffydoc 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: 2014-November-18

Posted 2015-May-21, 13:47

Is someone seriously suggesting a pass with this hand? 6 or even 7 is not out of the question - however preempts do work, I would call 4s and think similar problems would arise at the other table. daffy
0

#27 User is offline   zillahandp 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 227
  • Joined: 2015-February-11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-May-21, 16:51

Another no brainer 4s
0

#28 User is offline   case_no_6 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 57
  • Joined: 2014-April-28

Posted 2015-May-21, 20:46

 diana_eva, on 2015-May-21, 10:19, said:

Yes. Double is a reasonable option. I personally would double, but I get these doubles wrong too many times, so I refrained from arguing in favor of X because I do not know what's best.

If it were such a clear call, the hand wouldn't have been posted at all.



I disagree that double is a reasonable option. What will you do if/when partner bids 5C? It is insane to continue with 5S when 4S was not even close to a lock to make. Surely it is best (percentage-wise) to bid your 5 card suit while you can at the game level instead of fumbling about looking for a fit that may not exist at the 5 level.
0

#29 User is offline   krhorneman 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 2015-May-09

Posted 2015-May-21, 23:15

4♠. I do need pard to have several cover cards for slam to make, since it isn't clear he has a ♥ singleton yet. I didn't see the vulnerability, and it has some effect on my bid here. Red on White, pard will know I have a real hand for this. White on red, I should double, as I could bid 4♠ on many much weaker hands.
0

#30 User is offline   CONDROZ 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 2015-May-18

Posted 2015-May-22, 01:15

5 hearts and 6 diamonds over 6 clubs ... I love fear and hate to get robbed
0

#31 User is offline   Jinksy 

  • Experimental biddicist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,909
  • Joined: 2010-January-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-May-22, 10:54

On the actual hand, I like double, but maybe that's related to my sig - I wouldn't expect to find slam in a million years if I bid 4♠ on this.

Meanwhile, if P has a balanced hand with a handful of points, we probably do almost as well in expectation defending as playing. If he pulls to 5♣, I expect him to have enough clubs that we've got a reasonable chance of making it. If he bids either of the other suits, I'll raise him a level.
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
0

#32 User is offline   diana_eva 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,987
  • Joined: 2009-July-26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:bucharest / romania

Posted 2015-May-22, 16:05

The off topic replies were generating too many reports so I split those to a separate thread in the Water Cooler here.

#33 User is offline   billw55 

  • enigmatic
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,757
  • Joined: 2009-July-31
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-May-23, 15:50

 diana_eva, on 2015-May-22, 16:05, said:

The off topic replies were generating too many reports so I split those to a separate thread in the Water Cooler here.

Reports? As in, people complaining about the posts? Does this happen often?
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
0

#34 User is offline   diana_eva 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,987
  • Joined: 2009-July-26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:bucharest / romania

Posted 2015-May-23, 16:27

 billw55, on 2015-May-23, 15:50, said:

Reports? As in, people complaining about the posts? Does this happen often?


People complaining about other people's attitude :) No, it doesn't happen often.

#35 User is offline   diana_eva 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,987
  • Joined: 2009-July-26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:bucharest / romania

Posted 2015-May-23, 16:42

FWIW I gave the hands to robots. Was curious what North wd bid, clubs or spades:


#36 User is offline   kuhchung 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 729
  • Joined: 2010-August-03

Posted 2015-May-23, 18:42

Nice work GIB.
Videos of the worst bridge player ever playing bridge:
https://www.youtube....hungPlaysBridge
0

#37 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,080
  • Joined: 2005-May-16
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-May-25, 16:55

At imps, one might try 5♥. Shows 5 ♠ and a minor and gets you to 6 when it is right. 4♠ and dbl are both okay but hard to handle.
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
0

#38 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2015-May-25, 19:52

This is a clear DBL for me. But I do not blame 4♠ ers. It all depends on what DBL would mean for them.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
0

#39 User is offline   Jinksy 

  • Experimental biddicist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,909
  • Joined: 2010-January-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-May-26, 13:05

 MrAce, on 2015-May-25, 19:52, said:

This is a clear DBL for me.


How will you continue if P bids 4♠?
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
0

#40 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2015-May-26, 13:44

 Jinksy, on 2015-May-26, 13:05, said:

How will you continue if P bids 4♠?


5♥
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
0
  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users