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What to overcall?

Poll: What to overcall? (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Red, RHO deals and open 2D AKxxx x J KQJTxx

  1. 2S (8 votes [19.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  2. 3C (22 votes [52.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.38%

  3. Other (please specify) (12 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

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#1 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 05:18

You are not allowed any form of leaping Michaels, the question is not what system are you playing, it's what are you going to bid given your limited options. It's teams.

Spoiler

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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 05:37

So not only am I not allowed to play Leaping Michaels, I'm presumably being forced to play penalty doubles as well?
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#3 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 05:47

what would 3d be here?
strong hand old fashion or both majors or other?
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#4 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 05:50

View Postmgoetze, on 2015-May-24, 05:37, said:

So not only am I not allowed to play Leaping Michaels, I'm presumably being forced to play penalty doubles as well?

I don't think that's a valid comment. The hand is not very interesting if you play leaping Michaels, as I presume you would just use it. You are welcome to have takeout doubles. I think 3♦ is probably just the majors.
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#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 06:21

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-24, 05:50, said:

I don't think that's a valid comment. The hand is not very interesting if you play leaping Michaels, as I presume you would just use it. You are welcome to have takeout doubles.

Well, you didn't list it as a poll option even though it seems like a pretty strong candidate to me.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#6 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 07:00

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-24, 05:18, said:

You are not allowed any form of leaping Michaels.


Why not? The main thing I take away from this hand is that a conventional method for showing strong 2-suiters over a preempt is really important! Without leaping Michaels, no bid adequately describes this hand.

Regarding the auction you had at the table, I think North has a obvious 3NT bid over the 3C. (Assuming your playing IMPs or Rubber)
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#7 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 07:26

Stuck without leaping I just bid 3C and expect to have another chance. I really do not have so much in hcv and with a weak hand opening I see no real problem as I highly doubt partner is going to pass. If he bids 3N I have 4S available. If they bid H perhaps paarntr can dble to show S, and if not I will bid them myself at what ever level is required.
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#8 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 07:41

View PostWesleyC, on 2015-May-24, 07:00, said:

Why not? The main thing I take away from this hand is that a conventional method for showing strong 2-suiters over a preempt is really important! Without leaping Michaels, no bid adequately describes this hand.

Regarding the auction you had at the table, I think North has a obvious 3NT bid over the 3C. (Assuming your playing IMPs or Rubber)

Yes, if p can bid over 2♠ with K♦ not working they can bid 3N over 3♣ where K♦ is a stopper and stopper in all suits.
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#9 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 09:00

View PostWesleyC, on 2015-May-24, 07:00, said:

Why not? The main thing I take away from this hand is that a conventional method for showing strong 2-suiters over a preempt is really important! Without leaping Michaels, no bid adequately describes this hand.

Regarding the auction you had at the table, I think North has a obvious 3NT bid over the 3C. (Assuming your playing IMPs or Rubber)

I am not disputing that, I play the method myself, but I could not on this particular occasion.
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#10 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 13:50

3c

This is not without risk since we all too easily can miss 4s. The 3c bid offers a lot of flexibility in return for this risk. We might be able to play in clubs nt or even spades and possibly even make slam bidding easier (especially in clubs). X has some benefit but really isnt as safe or flexible as 3c the odds of 3dx being right are really slim and it may actually make reaching 3n harder than the 3c bid.

3c = 8 3s = 7 x = 6
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#11 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 14:19

View Postgszes, on 2015-May-24, 13:50, said:


3c = 8 3s = 7 x = 6

3S?
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#12 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 14:46

IMO 3♣ = 10, 2♠ = 8, Double = 5. If 2♦ is natural, then 3♦ would be fine if it could mean any 2-suiter.
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#13 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2015-May-24, 16:37

IMO a bid that show a two suiter = 10, 3♣ = 8, 2♠ = 6
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#14 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 00:10

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-24, 05:18, said:

You are not allowed any form of leaping Michaels, the question is not what system are you playing, it's what are you going to bid given your limited options. It's teams.

Spoiler



Bid 2♠ then rebid 4♣ Partner will then know you have major/minor 2 suiter. No Trumps is out of the question with such an unbalanced hand....
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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 01:45

If you're not playing Leaping Michaels, 3♦ shows any two-suiter, so the correct action is 3♦, planning to convert hearts to spades. This is the Expert forum, so my expert partner will understand this.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#16 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 02:12

so just to be clear

3d as a strong cuebid is forbidden

3d showing a strong hand is not allowed
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#17 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 03:24

View Postmike777, on 2015-May-25, 02:12, said:

so just to be clear

3d as a strong cuebid is forbidden

3d showing a strong hand is not allowed

I don't recommend using cue bids in a casual partnership. I prefer to
play the K.I.S.S. system (Keep It Simple Stupid)
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#18 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 03:41

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-May-25, 03:24, said:

I don't recommend using cue bids in a casual partnership. I prefer to
play the K.I.S.S. system (Keep It Simple Stupid)


You realize this is the expert forum, right?

#19 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 05:58

I would make cuebid 3♦ to show my decent two suiters with 4 losers.
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#20 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2015-May-25, 08:31

WesleyC got this one early on. 3C direct over 2D is certainly a very good hand, and North's pass is very wrong. Theory about cuebids or leaping Mike is nice, but unnecessary this time.

Leaping Mike, BTW, with an unknown Major, can get ugly.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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