[wkrasl]

Apologies if this was asked before, but I get a short keyword error with searches like, "Jump to 4NT," "Slam Forcing Bids," etc.

My partner opened 1♠ and I had 23 hcp with ♠KQ65 ♥AK ♦KJ83 ♣AK2. To open I knew he had to have both missing aces and two or three honors, or he had one ace and every other missing honor. He actually had ♠AJ843 ♥Q8753 ♦A ♣J3, giving us 35 hcp total.

We made 6NT, but unfortunately didn't bid it. I thought we belonged in 6♠ as soon as he opened with 1♠, so I bid 4NT asking for aces. He passed!

Post mortems are welcome. My best guess is that I should have gone directly to 6♠ without asking, hoping he would go to 7♠ with 16-17 hcp.

[nige1]

wkrasl, on 2014-November-18, 21:44, said:

Apologies if this was asked before, but I get a short keyword error with searches like, "Jump to 4NT," "Slam Forcing Bids," etc.. My partner opened 1♠ and I had 23 hcp with ♠KQ65 ♥AK ♦KJ83 ♣AK2. To open I knew he had to have both missing aces and two or three honors, or he had one ace and every other missing honor. He actually had ♠AJ843 ♥Q8753 ♦A ♣J3, giving us 35 hcp total. We made 6NT, but unfortunately didn't bid it. I thought we belonged in 6♠ as soon as he opened with 1♠. I bid 4NT asking for aces, and he passed! Post mortems are welcome. My best guess is that I should have gone directly to 6♠ without asking, hoping he would go to 7♠ with 16-17 hcp.

IMO 2♦ (forcing) or 2N (Jacoby) or 4N (RKC) seem OK If you're missing an A, you can settle in 6N

[mikestar13]

Playing with a partner whose skill level is low enough to not recognize 4NT as ace-asking, this hand is plenty good to bid it yourself. The purpose of asking for aces on this hand to to make sure partner has 2 of them so you can try for 7--there is no way you are stopping short of 6, your reasoning that he must have an ace to have an opening bid is entirely correct. Of course if partner can't recognize 4NT as ace asking, maybe he will also open a ace light . . . .

[ahydra]

wkrasl, on 2014-November-18, 21:44, said:

My best guess is that I should have gone directly to 6♠ without asking, hoping he would go to 7♠ with 16-17 hcp.

Absolutely not. You never bid 7 over 6 unless you have an extremely good reason, namely that partner has made a grand-slam try with a previous bid and you now want to accept.

Your bid of 4NT seems sensible, though as a rule of thumb it's generally wise to take things slowly, e.g. via Jacoby 2NT if you have that available. Partner messed up badly by passing rather than telling you how many aces he had. But it does come down to your agreements - hopefully you talked to partner and asked him what he thought 4NT was, and have now agreed that it means asking aces. (When starting out, playing 4NT as ALWAYS asking aces can help avoid several misunderstandings; you can introduce quantitative raises and two-suited takeouts later)

I had a similar experience once where partner passed after 1H-4C splinter. The bad news was we were cold for 7H. The good news was that I made 4C on the 3-1 fit.

ahydra

[MrAce]

wkrasl, on 2014-November-18, 21:44, said:

Apologies if this was asked before, but I get a short keyword error with searches like, "Jump to 4NT," "Slam Forcing Bids," etc.

My partner opened 1♠ and I had 23 hcp with ♠KQ65 ♥AK ♦KJ83 ♣AK2. To open I knew he had to have both missing aces and two or three honors, or he had one ace and every other missing honor. He actually had ♠AJ843 ♥Q8753 ♦A ♣J3, giving us 35 hcp total.

We made 6NT, but unfortunately didn't bid it. I thought we belonged in 6♠ as soon as he opened with 1♠, so I bid 4NT asking for aces. He passed!

Post mortems are welcome. My best guess is that I should have gone directly to 6♠ without asking, hoping he would go to 7♠ with 16-17 hcp.

Hi Wkrasi, welcome to forums. No need for apologies even if your question was asked before. Fwiw, I see nothing wrong with your 4 NT. We have good players in the forums who uses 4 NT for a lot of other reasons than asking aces or rkcb, but I do not recall any of them posting anything direct 4 NT over an opening as some sort of invite. I personally play it as asking aces, not rkcb, for the simplicity but I do not claim that it is the best use for it.

If that was your regular pd, you will need to sort this out. If that was a pick up pd then I would not lose my sleep over it if I were you.

[kgr]

1♠-4NT
I think my partner would that this a Quantitative (If I would ever bid this). Balanced hand with doubleton ♠ and 18-19HCP.(I'll ask my partner to be sure).
Certainly not RKC, because then I would support ♠ first via 2NT.

[barmar]

kgr, on 2014-November-19, 11:05, said:

1♠-4NT
I think my partner would that this a Quantitative (If I would ever bid this). Balanced hand with doubleton ♠ and 18-19HCP.(I'll ask my partner to be sure).
Certainly not RKC, because then I would support ♠ first via 2NT.

Expert practice these days is that an immediate jump to 4NT is regular Blackwood, supporting spades and then 4NT is RKC. The former is typically saved for freakish hands with long, solid suits, so you don't care about opener's kings.

[kgr]

kgr, on 2014-November-19, 11:05, said:

1♠-4NT
I think my partner would that this a Quantitative (If I would ever bid this). Balanced hand with doubleton ♠ and 18-19HCP.(I'll ask my partner to be sure).
Certainly not RKC, because then I would support ♠ first via 2NT.

barmar, on 2014-November-19, 11:08, said:

Expert practice these days is that an immediate jump to 4NT is regular Blackwood, supporting spades and then 4NT is RKC. The former is typically saved for freakish hands with long, solid suits, so you don't care about opener's kings.

Maybe blackwood is better than Quantitative. But I don't think we ever bid blackwood, so I think my partner will take it is Quantitative

[ggwhiz]

Your partner owes you a bid and at least two trips to the bar.

As long as I've played 4nt is only quantitative if it's a raise of a previous notrump bid. If I opened some light hand with say, 6-5 shape an unnecessary 4nt bid is the last thing I want to deal with.