[PhantomSac]

 akwoo, on 2014-September-12, 20:42, said:

Personally, I think this is a perfectly good 3♣ overcall at MPs.

However, I think it's clear from this thread it doesn't matter what I think; it matters what your partner and you agree on.

One choice is that you agree West has a normal 3♣ overcall, and East passes with that hand opposite. You miss some games, but you compete better on partscodes.

Another choice is that you agree West should not overcall 3♣ on the West hand, and East should bid over the 3♣ overcall. Your game bidding is better, but sometimes you sell out to 2♠ or 3♠ when you're better off playing 3♣ or 4♣.

Why are those the only 2 options? Personally I would overcall 3C and I would bid with the east hand. Sometimes you both have minimums with Qx opp Jx (3 points that are worth zero) and it doesn't work out. You don't have a lot of room when they preempt and you are going to have to guess. Is it really such a disaster to play 4C anyways? Sometimes I'll go down 1, and they obviously make at least 2 spades.

And by the way, overcalling at imps is a lot better than at MP vul. Like on this hand no one would care if they played 4C instead of defended 2S, but if you go for 200 in 3C (or 4C) that is a complete disaster at MP. And if you get to a light 3N, that's good at MP but even better at imps vul.

Also this is a funny thread to read when there is another one going on right now where almost everyone else agreed with overcalling 3C on A x Axxx AKJxxxx lol.

[whereagles]

 Nabooba, on 2014-September-12, 19:40, said:

You can avoid this by not bidding 3C on this rubbish. That is a big overbid.

overbid? maybe .. big overbid? never. Add the ♣10 and like 99% of experts would do it.

[Nabooba]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-13, 01:52, said:

overbid? maybe .. big overbid? never. Add the ♣10 and like 99% of experts would do it.

And your evidence for this comment Mr Whereagles is.....?

[Vampyr]

 Trick13, on 2014-September-05, 07:30, said:

Actually we were a bit unlucky as every other pair probably faced a multi 2♦ opener instead. Then West can pass and bid a delayed 3♣.

If he gets the chance. Weak-only multis are very popular.

[whereagles]

 Nabooba, on 2014-September-13, 03:14, said:

And your evidence for this comment Mr Whereagles is.....?

You have answered the question yourself.

[Nabooba]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-13, 10:29, said:

You have answered the question yourself.

So invented by you.

[chasetb]

 Nabooba, on 2014-September-13, 03:14, said:

And your evidence for this comment Mr Whereagles is.....?

I know I'm not whereeagles, and there are plenty of times I don't agree with him, but in this case we are 100% agreement. The only real problem I see on this hand is in the stopper ask - I know people that ask when they have 0.5-1.0 stoppers, and people that ask when they likely have 0 help. It looks like they didn't agree on which one they were doing.

The evidence I have is PhantomSac's post (#21), which I have posted below this paragraph. He is a world-class player who has won a few NABC titles, and has a Silver from the 2011 Bermuda Bowl. While mikeh hasn't responded, I bet he would say the same thing, and if Fred would grace us with his presence, I bet he would also agree. I don't know Frances well enough, but she is another Expert whose opinion I value highly.

 PhantomSac, on 2014-September-12, 20:48, said:

Why are those the only 2 options? Personally I would overcall 3C and I would bid with the east hand. Sometimes you both have minimums with Qx opp Jx (3 points that are worth zero) and it doesn't work out. You don't have a lot of room when they preempt and you are going to have to guess. Is it really such a disaster to play 4C anyways? Sometimes I'll go down 1, and they obviously make at least 2 spades.

And by the way, overcalling at imps is a lot better than at MP vul. Like on this hand no one would care if they played 4C instead of defended 2S, but if you go for 200 in 3C (or 4C) that is a complete disaster at MP. And if you get to a light 3N, that's good at MP but even better at imps vul.

Also this is a funny thread to read when there is another one going on right now where almost everyone else agreed with overcalling 3C on A x Axxx AKJxxxx lol.

[1eyedjack]

If my spade guard is sufficiently robust that it can withstand attack at trick 1 in NT with no Spade help from partner, and I have a minor suit source of tricks, then I will stretch to overcall 2N in preference to 3m. The corollary is that if I overcall 3m and then hear 3S cue from partner, there is an implication, if perhaps no hard guarantee, that he has a little something in Spades and that I in turn require a little less to justify 3N.

Maybe that is all wrong?

[Nabooba]

 chasetb, on 2014-September-13, 20:33, said:

I know I'm not whereeagles, and there are plenty of times I don't agree with him, but in this case we are 100% agreement. The only real problem I see on this hand is in the stopper ask - I know people that ask when they have 0.5-1.0 stoppers, and people that ask when they likely have 0 help. It looks like they didn't agree on which one they were doing.

The evidence I have is PhantomSac's post (#21), which I have posted below this paragraph. He is a world-class player who has won a few NABC titles, and has a Silver from the 2011 Bermuda Bowl. While mikeh hasn't responded, I bet he would say the same thing, and if Fred would grace us with his presence, I bet he would also agree. I don't know Frances well enough, but she is another Expert whose opinion I value highly.

This is one player only. The others have not responded. Poll 100 experts and if 99 of them overcall 3C I will concd your point. Meanwhile there are some very good players who would NOT overcall 3C on this thread.

[the hog]

I would also not overcall 3C on this hand. Your suits have too many holes. I do not understand the posters who comment on IMP and MP overcalls. It appears they have it the wrong way around.

[whereagles]

 Nabooba, on 2014-September-13, 23:15, said:

(...) there are some very good players who would NOT overcall 3C on this thread.

Just to clarify. On this particular hand it wouldn't surprise me to see ~1/4 experts passing (which is more or less what the thread comments show). With ♣10 I think just about all would overcall. Obviously, I can't give evidence on something that's personal judgement