[32519]

Basic system is 2/1:

---

What now? South has 3 ♠ losers to get rid of. How must the bidding continue now to find the grand? North's bidding has shown 5 clubs and 4 diamonds. That leaves 4-cards in the majors, 2 are taken care of by South's two aces. What about the other two?

[ahydra]

You might fairly safely bet on North not also having a singleton heart, given opps haven't mentioned them.

Is there a follow-up you can use to ask for kings/etc? e.g. 5H asks, 5S shows a spade control, then South just bids it.

Some people will no doubt suggest cue rather than asking for keycards; they're probably right, as long as they've got good methods to determine there are no keycards missing. (How about: following a sequence of cuebids 5NT shows an even number of keycards?)

ahydra

[diana_eva]

I wd have cued 4S over 4D. Don't know how common it is to show a singleton before an Ace, but I usually try to cue the lowest possible first, be it 1st or 2nd round control.

[Antrax]

diana_eva, on 2014-March-06, 04:54, said:

I wd have cued 4S over 4D.

Presumably that would've shown the wrong number of keycards, as 4♦ was 6 keycard BW.

[SteveMoe]

Try:
1♦-3♠Splinter Raise
4♦Minorwood - 5♣ 2 with
7♦

[diana_eva]

Antrax, on 2014-March-06, 05:29, said:

Presumably that would've shown the wrong number of keycards, as 4♦ was 6 keycard BW.

Ah, I missed that lol

[Fluffy]

1♦-2♣
4♥-4♠

You can bid 4♠ to leave control to partner who can see his diamond holding, our hand is gonna be fully explained once we show 2 keycards and queen of trump. Going straight to 4NT and assumig ♦Q is either in partner's hands of falling is also a good alternative.

[Cyberyeti]

Well 5♥(cue)-5♠(cue)-7m would seem reasonably easy, the only danger is Kxx, x, Axxx, AQxxx but that looks like a 3♥ splinter for many people over 1♦, or if not a 4♥ splinter over 3♣, also opps might well have bid.

We'd never bid 2♣ first up, either 3♣(fit, the suit is marginally sub par for us, but with the 5th diamond we'd probably do it anyway) or 2♦ inverted.

This would be trivial after the fit bid, as it confirms all the keycards as soon as 3♣ is bid due to the requirements on the suits.

[Lord Molyb]

Isn't south a perfect 2♦ opener with your system?

http://www.bridgebas...e-two-diamonds/

1♣ - 2♦
3♦ - 3♠
4♣ - 5♣
5♠ - 6♦
7♦

1♣ = Precision
2♦ = Natural, positive
3♦ = Trump-asking bid
3♠ = 5 to one top honor
4♣ = asks
5♣ = AQ or AK of clubs
5♠ = asks
6♦ = 2nd round control of spades
7♦ = Would have to be very unlucky to not have 13 tricks.

[Cyberyeti]

SteveMoe, on 2014-March-06, 05:48, said:

Try:
1♦-3♠Splinter Raise
4♦Minorwood - 5♣ 2 with
7♦

Great auction, except:

Why is N showing Q♦ when partner presumably could have Kxx(x)
Why is S bidding the grand without further investigation when partner could have Q, KJx, Axxxxx, Axx (he should have 6 to show the Q)

[32519]

ahydra, on 2014-March-06, 04:32, said:

Is there a follow-up you can use to ask for kings/etc? e.g. 5H asks, 5S shows a spade control, then South just bids it.
ahydra

South does not know that North is 5/5 in the minors. How does South know if 5♠ shows a singleton or a guarded king? A guarded king still only gets me to 12. I want 13.

From South's point of view there are now 12 guaranteed tricks, 9 in the minor suits, the ♠AK (if North is showing a guarded king), and the ♥A. Give me a legitimate auction to bid the grand without blasting.

[32519]

SteveMoe, on 2014-March-06, 05:48, said:

Try:
1♦-3♠Splinter Raise
4♦Minorwood - 5♣ 2 with
7♦

We are playing off Paul Thurston's "The Pocket Guide to 2/1." According to this -
RESPONSES TO A 1♦ OPENING:
3♥/3♠/4♣ = Splinter raises of diamonds with shortness in bid suit, 5+♦ and 12+ HCP.

The North hand only has 10 HCP, falling short by 2 HCP for the splinter raise. The other issue here is, by bidding this way a cross-ruff will probably be needed without knowing enough about the North hand. Shorten North's ♣ suit and add them to his ♥ suit, if the opponents lead trumps, they pull two which may prove to be vital to make a grand via a cross-ruff.

[Cyberyeti]

32519, on 2014-March-06, 11:02, said:

We are playing off Paul Thurston's "The Pocket Guide to 2/1." According to this -
RESPONSES TO A 1♦ OPENING:
3♥/3♠/4♣ = Splinter raises of diamonds with shortness in bid suit, 5+♦ and 12+ HCP.

The North hand only has 10 HCP, falling short by 2 HCP for the splinter raise. The other issue here is, by bidding this way a cross-ruff will probably be needed without knowing enough about the North hand. Shorten North's ♣ suit and add them to his ♥ suit, if the opponents lead trumps, they pull two which may prove to be vital to make a grand via a cross-ruff.

You may have discounted the Q♥ but it's there and the N hand is a 12 count.

Your second point is why the fit jump 3♣ if available is better than the splinter.

[32519]

Fluffy, on 2014-March-06, 06:04, said:

1♦-2♣
4♥-4♠

You can bid 4♠ to leave control to partner who can see his diamond holding, our hand is gonna be fully explained once we show 2 keycards and queen of trump. Going straight to 4NT and assumig ♦Q is either in partner's hands of falling is also a good alternative.

Not sure if this will get me to the grand legitimately?
The Pocket Guide says this about the 2♣ response -
RESPONSES TO A 1♦ OPENING
2♣ = 100% game forcing, 4+♣, 12+ HCP. May have 4-card major if longer ♣.

How must South know if 4♠ is a singleton or a 4-card ♠ suit? On the South bidding, the hand can just as well be 4♠/1♥/4♦/4♣? If that is what South actually held, how does South differentiate between a minor suit game/slam in ♣ or a major suit game/slam in ♠?

[32519]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-March-06, 06:13, said:

Well:
1. 5♥(cue)-5♠(cue)-7m would seem reasonably easy, the only danger is Kxx, x, Axxx, AQxxx
2. but that looks like a 3♥ splinter for many people over 1♦, or if not a 4♥ splinter over 3♣, also opps might well have bid.

Paraphrasing is mine:
1. This is precisely my dilemma, how to bid the grand legitimately? See the reply to Ahydra. The 5♠ cue gets me to 12 legitimately. I want 13 without blasting. What would 5NT be over 5♠?
2. See the reply to SteveMoe.

Cyberyeti, on 2014-March-06, 06:13, said:

We'd never bid 2♣ first up, either 3♣(fit, the suit is marginally sub par for us, but with the 5th diamond we'd probably do it anyway) or 2♦ inverted.

This isn't 2/1. The OP says basic system is 2/1.

Cyberyeti, on 2014-March-06, 06:13, said:

This would be trivial after the fit bid, as it confirms all the keycards as soon as 3♣ is bid due to the requirements on the suits.

This doesn't help. I want to bid the grand legitimately without guessing.

[32519]

Lord Molyb, on 2014-March-06, 06:28, said:

1♣ - 2♦
3♦ - 3♠
4♣ - 5♣
5♠ - 6♦
7♦

1♣ = Precision
2♦ = Natural, positive
3♦ = Trump-asking bid
3♠ = 5 to one top honor
4♣ = asks
5♣ = AQ or AK of clubs
5♠ = asks
6♦ = 2nd round control of spades
7♦ = Would have to be very unlucky to not have 13 tricks.

This doesn't help. The OP says the basic system is 2/1 (not Precision).

[Cyberyeti]

You seem not only to want people to bid it using 2/1, but the awful version of it you use as exemplified by the other thread you posted, fit jumps and 2/1 are not mutually exclusive.

The splinter appears to be EXACTLY as your system card advertised, 2 aces 2 queens = 12 points, so 12+, stiff spade is perfect, but you're not happy with that.

[Zelandakh]

I am surprised this is not a 2♦ opening for you! but perhaps that is with a different partner. A possible auction:-

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1♠ = GF with no 4 card major
1NT = relay, usually 18+
... - 2♠ = 5+ clubs, 5+ diamonds
2NT = relay
... - 3♣ = 0-1 spades
3♦ = relay
... - 4♦ = 1255, extras, 4 controls
4♥ = relay
... - 5♣ = controls in both minors but not hearts
5NT = relay
... - 6♦ = ♣Q, no ♦Q
7♣

The smallest change within your auction I can see that would lead to the grand is making a 5♠ SSA after 5♣. When North shows a singleton over that the situation is clear. As others have pointed out, other possible solutions also exist where changes are made earlier in the auction.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

You had a good tool with the 6Ace RKC... ( 4D! )

Delay it 1 round and cuebid prior to it:
3D - 3H
3S - 4D! , etc....

[mcphee]

Why would the opening hand blast key card when it seems best to cue bid H and hope partner is able to cue bid S. When that happens you can use your t6 card key ask and reach it easy, even without 6 card ask you may well bid it.