[kgr]

(2S)-DBL-(P)-2NT!
(P)-3D-(P)-3H

2NT=Weak or GF with 4cH.
3D=Strong (should this be forcing?)
Is 3H forcing or very weak with long H?

The bidding continued without knowing of each other what happened:
(2S)-DBL-(P)-2NT!
(P)-3D-(P)-3H
(P)-4C-(P)-4S
(P)-4NT-(P)-5C
(P)-5D-(P)-6D
AP

[ahydra]

3D is F1 for sure, since DBL is unlimited.

But 3H... I don't know. Given that advancer may have zero there's an argument for playing it NF, but given that opener is pretty huge there's an argument for playing it GF (pass being the only way to stop below game). You might even play both, the former at pairs, the latter at teams.

On the actual auction if advancer had a weak hand with long hearts then he definitely shouldn't be bidding 4S.

ahydra

[helene_t]

3♦ nonforcing, about 17-19 points.

3♥ is a hand that wanted to sign off in 3♥ opposite a normal t/o double, but now I think it should be constructive. Something like 4-6 points with five hearts. With a real bust just pass the 3♦ bid.

[PhilKing]

3♥ is just weak, and not necessarily long hearts. It could be based on a 4414 zero count as far as I can see.

Partner has shown a good hand with 4 hearts and longer diamonds, and we are simply bidding the obvious.

[Cyberyeti]

PhilKing, on 2014-May-22, 11:37, said:

3♥ is just weak, and not necessarily long hearts. It could be based on a 4414 zero count as far as I can see.

Partner has shown a good hand with 4 hearts and longer diamonds, and we are simply bidding the obvious.

Has he, what does he do with say xxx, Q, AKQJxx, AKQ ?

[PhilKing]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-22, 12:34, said:

Has he, what does he do with say xxx, Q, AKQJxx, AKQ ?

(2♠)-3♠ for me.

Or double then 3♠ if an immediate 3♠ shows a two-suiter.

[Cyberyeti]

PhilKing, on 2014-May-22, 12:44, said:

(2♠)-3♠ for me.

Or double then 3♠ if an immediate 3♠ shows a two-suiter.

So you're happy to swallow the odd occasion when partner bids 3N with the A or K ♠ and opening leader bangs down his 6 cashing hearts.

[kenberg]

This reply assumes "2NT=Weak or GF with 4cH" means that it could be weak with anything or it could be GF with four hearts. Seems reasonable.

I believe it would be best (and I think surely the default if undiscussed) to play that 3♥ says: "I was planning to bid 3♥ over 3♣". This is partner's show, I can't much imagining me passing 3♦ but I suppose with true trash, maybe six clubs to the J and out, I might.

How might this agreement be a problem? Well, maybe partner doesn't have clubs and bid 3♦ simply to keep us from ending up in 3♣. But then, for his double, he has either strong values and long diamonds or else maybe somewhat less strength but a four card heart suit to go with decent and longish diamonds. In the first case, where he has just diamonds, he can bid 4♦ over 3♥. If he can't do that, he should have just bid 3♦ over the weak 2. In the second case, he has hearts, you have hearts, it belongs in hearts. He has some idea of your modest strength and he can bid 4 (or 6) or not. Some guesswork is involved. There usually is when the auction starts with 2♠.

Added: It occurs to me that if 3♠ over 3♣ is your gf with exactly four hearts (which I like since there inevitably are times that we double 2♠ w/o four hearts) then keep that also. Over 3♦, 3♠ shows a strong hand with exactly four hearts.

[PhilKing]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-22, 12:48, said:

So you're happy to swallow the odd occasion when partner bids 3N with the A or K ♠ and opening leader bangs down his 6 cashing hearts.

I wouldn't say it makes me happy, but I'm not going to gear my methods to cater for strong one-suiters with no stop in their suit and shortage in the other major.

[kgr]

PhilKing, on 2014-May-22, 11:37, said:

3♥ is just weak, and not necessarily long hearts. It could be based on a 4414 zero count as far as I can see.

Partner has shown a good hand with 4 hearts and longer diamonds, and we are simply bidding the obvious.

The DBL'er had: Q=Ax=AKQ8xx=K87x
Maybe he better bids 3S instead of DBL.

[kgr]

kenberg, on 2014-May-22, 12:56, said:

This reply assumes "2NT=Weak or GF with 4cH" means that it could be weak with anything or it could be GF with four hearts. Seems reasonable.

I believe it would be best (and I think surely the default if undiscussed) to play that 3♥ says: "I was planning to bid 3♥ over 3♣". This is partner's show, I can't much imagining me passing 3♦ but I suppose with true trash, maybe six clubs to the J and out, I might.

How might this agreement be a problem? Well, maybe partner doesn't have clubs and bid 3♦ simply to keep us from ending up in 3♣. But then, for his double, he has either strong values and long diamonds or else maybe somewhat less strength but a four card heart suit to go with decent and longish diamonds. In the first case, where he has just diamonds, he can bid 4♦ over 3♥. If he can't do that, he should have just bid 3♦ over the weak 2. In the second case, he has hearts, you have hearts, it belongs in hearts. He has some idea of your modest strength and he can bid 4 (or 6) or not. Some guesswork is involved. There usually is when the auction starts with 2♠.

Added: It occurs to me that if 3♠ over 3♣ is your gf with exactly four hearts (which I like since there inevitably are times that we double 2♠ w/o four hearts) then keep that also. Over 3♦, 3♠ shows a strong hand with exactly four hearts.

- For us (2S)-DBL-2NT-3D shows a strong hand
- (2S)-DBL-2NT-3C-?
=> 3S=GF with 4cH and no S-stopper; 3NT=GF with 4cH and S-stopper
After (2S)-DBL-2NT-3D-?
It is best that??:
=> 3S=GF with 4cH and no S-stopper; 3NT=GF with 4cH and S-stopper
OR? => 3S=GF with 4cH; 3NT=weak with S-stopper (fi QJx=Qxx=xx=Jxxxx)?

[kenberg]

Let me go over the auction with my notion of what is what.
Dbl=2NT=3♦-3♥
That much seems to me should be "I was going to bid 3♥ over 3♣".
At this point, Dblr probably considered and rejected 3♠. What would it mean? Or rather, what would Lebber do? I think Lebber would think to himslef "I have told partner my values are modest, I have told him I have four hearts, I will now tell him of anything else I have". Lebber won't have much, but maybe something. With a spade stop he can bid 3NT. W/o a spades stop he will bid whatever suit seems most reasonable. Maybe 4♥ with extra length. Maybe 4♣ if he has four clubs. Maybe, I think even likely, 4♦ if he has not much to talk about. So I think there is a lot to be said for Dblr bidding 3♠ over 3♥. His partner will just do the best he can. Dblr's actual choice was 4♣. I wonder about his intent. He is missing two aces and even if his partner, announced to be weak, has one of them I am not optimistic about either 6♣ or 6♦. Twelve tricks from where? It seems to me that after the 3♥ call he could bid 3♠ and if his partner chooses 4♣ over that, raise it to 5♣. If he is partner chooses 4♥ he could pass it out, partner has five hearts, or more, which are probably good if only five, and he has no better ideas. I think leave it there. Or convert it to 5♦ if he wishes.

I am also having a little trouble with Lebber's raise to 6♦. Was this mps? I am assuming that Lebber has a spade stop since he did bid 4♠. At mps he may have felt that 5♦ is getting no matchpoints anyway so we may as well try for 6. Of course I don't know his hand, but it seems to me that he has probably shown most of it already by the time 5♦ is reached and so he might just leave it there, at least at imps.



Added: Just as a thought experiment, interchange the hearts and clubs in Dblr's hand. He still doubles 2♠ and I would think he still bids 3♦ over 2NT. Certainly he doesn't bid a passable 3♣ and I would think bidding 3♥ on a four card suit is bizarre, so he bids 3♦ trusting that if Lebber has four hearts he will now hear about it. So I think that the 3♥ bid should not show any extra length.

But still further added: Some would play that bidding 4♦ directly over 2♠ shows the excellent hand with long diamonds and exactly four hearts. That might undo my idea about 3♥ over 3♦ in the current auction not showing extra length.The question would be: Can Dblr have a 6-4 in ♦-♥ that is strong enough to bid 3♦ over 2NT but not strong enough to bid 4♦ directly over 2♠? It seems to me that the answer should be yes.

Put otherwise: If 3♦ precluded Dbl from having four hearts because with four heart and values for 3♦ he would have acted otherwise, then it follows that 3♥ should show extra length. But myself, I would not play that 3♦ over 2NT precludes having four hearts.

[kgr]

These are the hands and how the bidding did go wrong to end in a reasonable contract:

---

- Should East start with DBL or with 3S?
- West started with 2NT, planning to rebid 4H to show a slam try. Does he has enough for that or is a direct 4H better?
- After East's 3D bid, West has a problem. Does 4H still show the slam-try or is it a max. weak hand (7-8 pts)? Probably max weak? How to show the good hand with 5cH now?
- East corrected 3H to 4C. West then bid 4S: cue for for D - for East this was cue for C. Followed by 4NT RKC