What now?
A Big 2-Suiter
#2
Posted 2014-May-02, 12:51
Assuming they retreat to ♣s or ♥s (which is no certainty) and P is silent, for me forcing bids are 2N (♠s and another) and a cue of their suit (lowest two suits else stop ask). So I'll bid 2N then their suit at the four level, then punt 7♠ if P ever bids them, else prob 6♠ unless P can persuade me he has a few ♦.
Most awkward scenario is prob that P pulls directly to 2♣ or ♥ and takes away my option to cue. Then I'll prob bid 5N, hoping P takes it as pick a slam, and go to 7 if he bids either of my suits, else play in 6♠.
#4
Posted 2014-May-02, 16:18
Jinksy, on 2014-May-02, 12:51, said:
Assuming they retreat to ♣s or ♥s (which is no certainty) and P is silent, for me forcing bids are 2N (♠s and another) and a cue of their suit (lowest two suits else stop ask). So I'll bid 2N then their suit at the four level, then punt 7♠ if P ever bids them, else prob 6♠ unless P can persuade me he has a few ♦.
Most awkward scenario is prob that P pulls directly to 2♣ or ♥ and takes away my option to cue. Then I'll prob bid 5N, hoping P takes it as pick a slam, and go to 7 if he bids either of my suits, else play in 6♠.
Why do you assume they will run out of NT? There are some of us who don't play pass is xfer to XX.
It will be embarrassing to take only 6-7 tricks in defense when you are cold for 6 ♠ or 6 ♦. If you are taking more than that in defense you are probably cold for grand.
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#5
Posted 2014-May-02, 17:25
#6
Posted 2014-May-02, 17:46
I'd use 2N or 4N depending on what I think partner can best read.
5N might work assuming we play PAS, but would have to be sure partner would sit for 6♠ over their 6♣ or 6♥ when right.
Many have the agreement that 5N with 2P2P shows [one suit other than ♦. So if I show ♠ after any of partner's bids, partner knows to correct to 7♦ with the right hand.
I'd probably stare at this hand for a while if partner answers 6♦ to 5N, hearing that wag ask "What do you call a 7-card suit?" TRUMPS!!
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
#7
Posted 2014-May-02, 19:35
Definitely NOT double.
2NT to start off with and wait to see how the auction progresses.
#8
Posted 2014-May-02, 19:41
Of course, I never hold hands good enough for this to be a problem for me.
#9
Posted 2014-May-02, 21:12
I raise 2♠ to 6♠ (on which partner would certainly raise with the king of trump).
I bid 2N (undiscussed, but surely forcing) followed by 6♦ over 2♥. I don't know whether partner will take it the same way, but I think 2N followed by 6♦ would show better spades than diamonds whereas an immediate 6♦ would show better diamonds than spades.
#10
Posted 2014-May-03, 00:22
akwoo, on 2014-May-02, 21:12, said:
I raise 2♠ to 6♠ (on which partner would certainly raise with the king of trump).
I bid 2N (undiscussed, but surely forcing) followed by 6♦ over 2♥. I don't know whether partner will take it the same way, but I think 2N followed by 6♦ would show better spades than diamonds whereas an immediate 6♦ would show better diamonds than spades.
As Astro is passable, I don't think an Astro 2D is a good idea.
#12
Posted 2014-May-03, 01:08
North alerted South's bid as -
1. Both minors, OR
2. Any big 2-suited hand
Does this conventional overcall have a name?
#14
Posted 2014-May-03, 14:51
MrAce, on 2014-May-02, 16:18, said:
I'm one of them.
If either of them has a 5-card ♣ suit it's likely they'll pull. Meanwhile P is allowed to have a ♣ honour (esp given that, if they don't pull, I expect him to have 5+ of them) or the K♠, or even the T♦. With the latter two, we can at least theoretically make 1700, assuming the grand is on.
If the K♠ is in dummy, we still have a chance of taking them for 1400 instead of 980, if P has the A♣, or 800 if he has the KJ or KT and declarer the J. If declarer has it (and I can't place P with a ♦ entry), 800 is odds-on to be 1100 on the same ♣ holding.
Meanwhile, it's all very well wanting to be in the appropriate slam, and maybe your methods are good enough to get there without Xing, but mine will struggle. A direct 5N is almost certain to get a round-suit response from P, which leaves you guessing about whether to punt 7 (and wrongsides for a possible 1st-round ruff even if you do get there). Most other suit bids are either preemptive or undiscussed - the only other obviously forcing bids I have without Xing are 2N for the minors (probably NF since I didn't double, though it's hard to imagine P passing), and 4N.
Maybe I could do that and keep bidding ♠s, but it's asking a lot from P to expect him to envisage the hand I have. 4N could be some kind of A ask, or 6-6 in the minors - even if I knew and knew my P knew, I cant imagine wanting to bid it.
#16
Posted 2014-May-03, 19:31
Jinksy, on 2014-May-03, 14:51, said:
If either of them has a 5-card ♣ suit it's likely they'll pull. Meanwhile P is allowed to have a ♣ honour (esp given that, if they don't pull, I expect him to have 5+ of them) or the K♠, or even the T♦. With the latter two, we can at least theoretically make 1700, assuming the grand is on.
If the K♠ is in dummy, we still have a chance of taking them for 1400 instead of 980, if P has the A♣, or 800 if he has the KJ or KT and declarer the J. If declarer has it (and I can't place P with a ♦ entry), 800 is odds-on to be 1100 on the same ♣ holding.
Meanwhile, it's all very well wanting to be in the appropriate slam, and maybe your methods are good enough to get there without Xing, but mine will struggle. A direct 5N is almost certain to get a round-suit response from P, which leaves you guessing about whether to punt 7 (and wrongsides for a possible 1st-round ruff even if you do get there). Most other suit bids are either preemptive or undiscussed - the only other obviously forcing bids I have without Xing are 2N for the minors (probably NF since I didn't double, though it's hard to imagine P passing), and 4N.
Maybe I could do that and keep bidding ♠s, but it's asking a lot from P to expect him to envisage the hand I have. 4N could be some kind of A ask, or 6-6 in the minors - even if I knew and knew my P knew, I cant imagine wanting to bid it.
-If you think they will run out, why are you wasting time with double. If they don't run your pd will. Suppose pd bid clubs or hearts, which is very likely, good luck with expressing 2 suiter of this scale.
-If nobody runs, you cash first 6 tricks and end up looking at your AQxxxxx suit. It is likely that they can score ♠K + 2-3-4-5 club tricks.
Sorry, double seems to me the worst of all.
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#17
Posted 2014-May-03, 22:02
akwoo, on 2014-May-03, 17:09, said:
Not likely, but possible. Why play joke bridge?
Bidding Astro here is almost as bad a as doubling.
#18
Posted 2014-May-04, 05:48
karlson, on 2014-May-02, 17:25, said:
The traditional meaning of a 2NT overcall was a GF 2-suiter and it is is still played at some levels. Playing Multi-Landy it is possible to include these hands within the 2♦ overcall in exactly the same way as strong hands can be bundled into an opening bid 2♦ multi.
the hog, on 2014-May-03, 22:02, said:
Is it? I have seen often enough from very good players that with such strong 2-suiters it is often better to start with a 2-suited overcall than a double. Here you are protected by it being even more unlikely than usual that partner will pass. In addition, the sequences (1NT) - 2♦ - 2♥; 3♠ and (1NT) - 2♦ - 2♥; 3NT are available to show GF hands with ♠+♣ and ♠+♦ respectively if you agree to this. So this can certainly work out as a general agreement.
Given that you reject X and 2♦, what is your choice here if playing the variant in which 2NT shows the minors? We have to do something!
#19
Posted 2014-May-04, 06:11
Zelandakh, on 2014-May-04, 05:48, said:
Is it? I have seen often enough from very good players that with such strong 2-suiters it is often better to start with a 2-suited overcall than a double. Here you are protected by it being even more unlikely than usual that partner will pass. In addition, the sequences (1NT) - 2♦ - 2♥; 3♠ and (1NT) - 2♦ - 2♥; 3NT are available to show GF hands with ♠+♣ and ♠+♦ respectively if you agree to this. So this can certainly work out as a general agreement.
Given that you reject X and 2♦, what is your choice here if playing the variant in which 2NT shows the minors? We have to do something!
Unlikely does not mean impossible, does it? Would you bid the same way if your M suit was hearts?
#20
Posted 2014-May-04, 06:13
Zelandakh, on 2014-May-04, 05:48, said:
Is it? I have seen often enough from very good players that with such strong 2-suiters it is often better to start with a 2-suited overcall than a double. Here you are protected by it being even more unlikely than usual that partner will pass. In addition, the sequences (1NT) - 2♦ - 2♥; 3♠ and (1NT) - 2♦ - 2♥; 3NT are available to show GF hands with ♠+♣ and ♠+♦ respectively if you agree to this. So this can certainly work out as a general agreement.
Given that you reject X and 2♦, what is your choice here if playing the variant in which 2NT shows the minors? We have to do something!
As 2nt is a big 2 suited, what's the problem?