[Wackojack]

---

2NT = game force 15-19
3♣ = slam interest 6+ suit
3♦,3♥, 3♠, 4♦, 4♠= Ist or 2nd round control
4NT = key card
5♦= 1
so counting 12 tricks
btw you would only initiate cue bidding with at least ♣Kx

Playing 15-17 no trump, how would you bid this?
Would you resort to the "derided in some quarters" Minorwood?

Thats how I think the bidding should have gone in Acol. Alas, after partner's 3♣bid, I woodenly bid 3NT which partner passed.

[wank]

your partner shouldn't have passed 3nt, but he shouldn't have been in that position as he shouldn't bid 3c. 3c isn't showing slam interest (unless you specifically agreed it as such which would be very silly) - it should just be exploring for the best game at that stage. he should jump to 4c over 2nt to show a good suit and slam interest. now with your controls you can cooperate.

[Cyberyeti]

 wank, on 2014-April-06, 14:04, said:

your partner shouldn't have passed 3nt, but he shouldn't have been in that position as he shouldn't bid 3c. 3c isn't showing slam interest (unless you specifically agreed it as such which would be very silly) - it should just be exploring for the best game at that stage. he should jump to 4c over 2nt to show a good suit and slam interest. now with your controls you can cooperate.

Doesn't 3♣ then 4♣ over 3N show the same slam interest ? For us it does probably needing more help in the club suit, Ax being plenty.

[FrancesHinden]

 Wackojack, on 2014-April-06, 10:01, said:

---

Playing 15-17 no trump, how would you bid this?
Would you resort to the "derided in some quarters" Minorwood?

Thats how I think the bidding should have gone in Acol. Alas, after partner's 3♣bid, I woodenly bid 3NT which partner passed.

Depends on your methods.
We would bid 1NT - 2NT (clubs) - 3C (forced) - ?
If responder bids 3S, shortage, opener has a virtual slam drive
He might not looking at singleton king, but any of his other options (e.g. 4C, slam try single-suited) seem to get you to slam quite quickly

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I am not sure, 3C should show SI.

It is merely setting clubs, and may still be bid on a hand, that is
not sure, if 3NT or 5C is the better contract.
Most of the time it will be based on a hand, that contains a single in
an unbid suit.
I am not sure, how good 3NT is, if responder does not have the king of
spades.

I dont think responder should bid 4C instead of 3C, do we really want to
by pass 3NT, when opener may not as control rich as he happens to be?
3NT over is also ok, as long as it showes a min for bidding, stoppers in
the unbid suits.
But of course it is not clear, if you want to send a strong message 2pro"
3NT with Axx / Axxx in the unbid suits, facing a singleton in one of them.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Wackojack]

 FrancesHinden, on 2014-April-06, 14:54, said:

Depends on your methods.
We would bid 1NT - 2NT (clubs) - 3C (forced) - ?
If responder bids 3S, shortage, opener has a virtual slam drive
He might not looking at singleton king, but any of his other options (e.g. 4C, slam try single-suited) seem to get you to slam quite quickly

OK, I am not familiar with this transfer method.

Are 1345 and 1345 permitted distributions after the 3♠ shortage bid? If so how does the no trump bidder with 4 cards in one of the red suits find the 4-4 fit. OR Do these game forcing distributions go via Stayman?

[campboy]

I play similar methods (except that it is 2♠ which shows clubs), and for me 13(45) GF would respond 3♠ to 1NT and GF hands with 4M5m would start with Stayman.

[steve2005]

 Wackojack, on 2014-April-08, 05:33, said:

OK, I am not familiar with this transfer method.

Are 1345 and 1345 permitted distributions after the 3♠ shortage bid? If so how does the no trump bidder with 4 cards in one of the red suits find the 4-4 fit. OR Do these game forcing distributions go via Stayman?

That depends on your methods but a 3♥/3♠ directly over 1N is often used with a singleton in bid suit 5-4 in minors and GF.

Some people reverse it and bid their 3-card major instead.


If your not using this, would use minor suit Stayman and if your not using MSS then it would go thru Stayman I think.

There is no standard system over 1N, people use their own gadgets.

[Zelandakh]

Whether or not 3♣ in the OP auction should be slam interest or not, if it is then I have a method which I quite like in such situations, a variation on Frivolous 3NT. In this the first step (here 3♦) shows a hand that would decline a slam try and other calls accept it. My preference of cue bidding is denial so 3♥ denies a heart control; 3♠ denies a spade control and shows a heart control. For the diamond cue, you can do it in 2 ways depending on how concerned you are about 3NT getting passed. The "safe" way is for 3NT to show a really bad hand for slam and 4♣ to show controls in both majors but not diamonds. The (probably) better idea is for 3NT to show controls in both majors and deny a diamond control. Either way, higher calls show controls in all suits and accept the slam try.

The point here being that using 3NT as the negative takes away a lot of space when Responder has slam drive, so inverting this with the first step makes the slam bidding more consistent. You just have to remember it and know in which auctions it applies.

As for a 1NT opening, well the same idea can apply if you are playing a simple atructure: 1NT - 3♣; 4♣(serious, all controls) - 4♦(kc); 4♠ - 6♦ is about as simple as it gets. As Frances has pointed out the more popular [4-suit] transfer method should also work. The common way of playing this is that 2NT followed by 3♠ shows shortage and 6+ clubs. A 1345 hand is bid via a different route, with an immediate 3♠ response being an option. My preference is to do it the other way round so that 2-suiters start with the transfer and 1-suiters just respond 3m as in the Stone Age methods. Even then I have special sequences available for (13)(45) hands (1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3M), which helps to keep everything separate and well-defined. There are a lot of 1NT structures out there, all with different pros and cons, so giving a definitive answer to this question is impossible.

Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with Minorwood in auctions where the minor has been agreed at the 3 level. Where Minorwood gets a bad name is when it is the suit agreement and the ask at the same time. Now you have no way of agreeing the minor with a slam try and have to guess. For example in the OP auction every suit has been cued and both have shown slam suitbability so for my money having 4♣ to mean Minorwood makes perfect sense. The call that does not make sense to me is 4♠, which would weem to me to deny the ♥K. Everything after this is also a bit weird so my guess is that this was just missed out.