[jillybean]

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MP (edit)

2♣ is gf, clubs or balanced. What now?

[ggwhiz]

imp's or mp's?

Doesn't really matter to me, pard has a doubleton club and 3nt feels like enough.

[fromageGB]

I assume opener has denied 4 hearts. If 2NT shows a good hand (basic hands being limited to a 2♠ bid) then I am pretty keen on a slam, so 3♣. If 2NT is any strength, I would still not rule it out, so 3♣.

[jillybean]

fromageGB, on 2013-September-15, 11:52, said:

I assume opener has denied 4 hearts. If 2NT shows a good hand (basic hands being limited to a 2♠ bid) then I am pretty keen on a slam, so 3♣. If 2NT is any strength, I would still not rule it out, so 3♣.

I'm checking on this with my partner; playing some type of checkback, does 2N deny 4H or simply show a hand suitable for NT?

If you bid 3♣ partner bids 3N, over 3♦ he will respond 3♥

[ggwhiz]

jillybean, on 2013-September-15, 12:31, said:

I'm checking on this with my partner; playing some type of checkback, does 2N deny 4H or simply show a hand suitable for NT?

If you bid 3♣ partner bids 3N, over 3♦ he will respond 3♥

I can't imagine any 5-4 in the majors not bidding 2♥ next. Please tell me a hand "suitable for notrump" NEVER includes a stiff club.

A hand with 5-4 - AQ - xx can bid 2♥ now and 2-3 nt next using the available bidding room and losing nothing.

[mr1303]

I bid 3C here whatever. If partner bids 3NT, I think I say glp

[the hog]

3H looks right to me.I might as well describe my hand. ggwhiz, you cannot bid 3NT under any circumstances. The 2C bid showed C OR a bal game raise, how on earth can partner tell the difference if you don't show your hand type?

[MrAce]

3♣, what else ?

[Fluffy]

The else is 4♣ if 2NT shows extras.

[fromageGB]

jillybean, on 2013-September-15, 12:31, said:

... playing some type of checkback...

We seem to have agreed that if opener had 4 hearts he would have bid 2♥, so I can't see a use for checkback over 2NT. If this is an "any strength, shape showing" bid, then you already know he has 5 spades and not 4 hearts. (If 2NT would be strong, and he is not, he could bid 2♠ with 5 or 6 and then you might need to know, but then 2NT by responder acts as checkback, asking for distribution.) So over 2NT, 3♣ has to be a natural suit.

Over the 3NT that follows, I bid 4NT. Happy for this to be a natural slam try, and if opener takes it ace asking, I bid 6NT if he has one missing, as he will probably have the K in that suit.

[kenberg]

Like many but not all, I bid 3♣. There is a question of where I am headed. I assume partner is balanced and, until I hear differently, I assume 12-14. But can he have three small diamonds? Some would not see that as a barrier to rebidding 2NT, in which case 5♣ may be a winner, while others would rebid their five card spade suit when holding three small in one of the reds. I prefer this latter style, but that's not the point. The point is that it would be good to kow what partner's style is.

[MickyB]

kenberg, on 2013-September-16, 05:28, said:

others would rebid their five card spade suit when holding three small in one of the reds.

Is it really worth giving up on 2S promising six just for this specific handtype?

3♣, wtp. If partner has weak diamonds we will find out now.

[kenberg]

MickyB, on 2013-September-16, 06:14, said:

Is it really worth giving up on 2S promising six just for this specific handtype?

3♣, wtp. If partner has weak diamonds we will find out now.

Views differ on this. My point was that it matters what partner thinks. I would say that 1♠-2♣-2♠ is more apt to be on six than is 1♥-2♦-2♥. Quite a few very good players, I think in fact the majority, would often bid in this manner with only five hearts.
But no one seems to ever change his mind on this. There are some that do and some that don't, and some you just can't tell.

As far as the strength of the 2NT rebid goes, I have never thought it takes any extra strength if 2♣ is GF. It could be 12-14, or it could be 18+ (or maybe a good 17). In the "more than a 1NT opening" case, partner is expected to make this clear on a later round of bidding.

[kenberg]

jillybean, on 2013-September-15, 12:31, said:

If you bid 3♣ partner bids 3N, over 3♦ he will respond 3♥

This again is a difference in styles. 3♦ is not a call I would consider. The hog bids 3♥. Personal;ly, I go with 3♣ but 3♥ is the other call I would consider. Mainly this would be to sort out whether we should be in clubs or NT, Over 3♥ I would expect partner to look at his diamond holding and, if he doesn't like it, get us back into clubs.

So, in my view, after 2NT, 3 of a red suit shows values in that suit. I would not be bidding 3♦.

If, over 3♣, partner bids 3NT I pass. I didn't say I had reds, they are his responsibility. And 6♣ appears to me to be a bridge too far.

[jillybean]

fromageGB, on 2013-September-16, 03:04, said:

We seem to have agreed that if opener had 4 hearts he would have bid 2♥, so I can't see a use for checkback over 2NT. If this is an "any strength, shape showing" bid, then you already know he has 5 spades and not 4 hearts. (If 2NT would be strong, and he is not, he could bid 2♠ with 5 or 6 and then you might need to know, but then 2NT by responder acts as checkback, asking for distribution.) So over 2NT, 3♣ has to be a natural suit.

Over the 3NT that follows, I bid 4NT. Happy for this to be a natural slam try, and if opener takes it ace asking, I bid 6NT if he has one missing, as he will probably have the K in that suit.

Apparently not everyone agrees , opener in this case did have 4 hearts. J7632,AK54,A2,53

[billw55]

jillybean, on 2013-September-16, 09:18, said:

Apparently not everyone agrees , opener in this case did have 4 hearts. J7632,AK54,A2,53

With that hand 2NT is just plain wrong, IMO.

[ggwhiz]

the hog, on 2013-September-15, 18:33, said:

3H looks right to me.I might as well describe my hand. ggwhiz, you cannot bid 3NT under any circumstances. The 2C bid showed C OR a bal game raise, how on earth can partner tell the difference if you don't show your hand type?

Ooops, I answered with my agreements and missed that part

[fromageGB]

jillybean, on 2013-September-16, 09:18, said:

Apparently not everyone agrees , opener in this case did have 4 hearts. J7632,AK54,A2,53

Well well well. So we do make 6NT provided they don't lead spades, which is unlikely. But I think I would like a system discussion with partner.

Edit - for clarity, I mean a spade lead is unlikely.

This post has been edited by fromageGB: 2013-September-16, 09:31

[jillybean]

fromageGB, on 2013-September-16, 09:30, said:

Well well well. So we do make 6NT provided they don't lead spades, which is unlikely. But I think I would like a system discussion with partner.

Edit - for clarity, I mean a spade lead is unlikely.

That is exactly what happened, I went Ace asking and we ended up in 6N. East holding AQT984,J9,9853,J led a heart.

Surprisingly, most others played in 4H and none found the heart slam.

[kenberg]

jillybean, on 2013-September-16, 11:17, said:

Surprisingly, most others played in 4H and none found the heart slam.

I would think a normal beginning is 1♠-2♣-2♥ after which I think the S hand is worth 3♥ rather than 4♥. Over 3♥ I suppose N calls 4♦ but S is still looking at a less than stunning trump suit. I would find it difficult to get to 6. I can't see that either can easily take charge and get us there.

North thinks 2NT rather than 2♥ is correct? I don't understand.

Your auction went how?

Anyway, the title celbrates your good fortune on this hand and is well chosen.