[straube]

1S-2C showing GI clubs OR any GF

1S-2C
.....2D-bal or interest in a minor
..........2H-GF ask
..........2S-4/4 or better minors, GI
..........2N-4+ clubs, GI
..........3C-6+ clubs, GI
.....2H-4+ hearts
..........2S-GF ask
..........2N-4+ clubs or 4/4 or better minors, GI
..........3C-6+ clubs, GI
..........3H-4 hearts and 4+ clubs, GI
.....2S-4 only clubs
..........2N-GF ask
..........3C-GI clubs
.....etc-6+ spades, single-suited and GF

My argument would be that the 2C bid is constructive and legal. I'd also argue that 2C is not a relay bid and that the 2D rebid is the first relay bid...hence this is not a relay system as defined by the ACBL. What do others think?

[CSGibson]

If my opponents wished to play such a system, I would never go to the director about it - he might make them play something I like less, like natural.

[straube]

CSGibson, on 2013-July-18, 08:47, said:

If my opponents wished to play such a system, I would never go to the director about it - he might make them play something I like less, like natural.

Horrors

[johnu]

Sounds like a relay system to me. 2C is artificial and is asking opener to describe their hand

[straube]

johnu, on 2013-July-18, 09:57, said:

Sounds like a relay system to me. 2C is artificial and is asking opener to describe their hand

It meets our definition of a relay system, but it may not meet the ACBL definition. Here's two quotes from the ACBL...

relay bid definition…"a bid which does not guarantee any specific suit, partner is requested to make the next-step bid (usually) or make another descriptive bid if appropriate (e.g. a diamond bid which usually shows hearts but may not have hearts in some cases"

relay system definition..."A sequence of relay bids is defined as a system if, after an opening of one of a suit, it is started prior to opener's rebid".

So I'm arguing that 2C is legal for Midchart and that responder's hand is not being relayed. I'm arguing that responder's rebids are the first relay bids. Since the first relay bid doesn't occur prior to opener's rebid, this is not a relay system.

[Free]

How can you explain 1♠-2♣-2♦ as a relay when the 2♥ response is also a relay?

[straube]

Free, on 2013-July-18, 10:34, said:

How can you explain 1♠-2♣-2♦ as a relay when the 2♥ response is also a relay?

Both are "relay bids" per the ACBL definition.

What I think the ACBL forbids is...1S-2C (clubs or diamonds and hearts), 2D (which is it?)

in which case 2C is a relay bid and 2D is pretty much foisted on opener...he's expected to rebid 2D like 90% of the time. In this example, the relay bid occurs before opener's first rebid and this could be the prelude to a "relay system"

So I'm arguing that after our 1S-2C that opener is not at all required to rebid 2D...that he's in fact trying to describe his own hand (with relay bids) and that this then doesn't constitute a relay system as far as the ACBL is concerned.

[johnu]

straube, on 2013-July-18, 10:48, said:

So I'm arguing that after our 1S-2C that opener is not at all required to rebid 2D...that he's in fact trying to describe his own hand (with relay bids) and that this then doesn't constitute a relay system as far as the ACBL is concerned.

I think in most "actual" relay auctions, breaking the relay is usually an option so the lack of a requirement to bid 2♦ doesn't make it a non-relay system. If you look at responder's 2♣ as being the "asking" bid rather than opener's 2♦, you may have a different prospective.

[paulg]

We play this normally but decided it was easier to make the 2♣ response game forcing in the ACBL rather than have to justify it as Mid-Chart when the club option was only invitational.