[carnivales]

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How would these hands be bid? Can we realize that slam is impossible and reach a sturdy NT contract?

[blackshoe]

It might help if East didn't start by overbidding his hand.

P-1♠-2♣-2NT-3NT.

[shnk]

1♣ - 1♠
1NT - 3NT

No way am I looking for slam as W after E rebids 1NT.
That's a pretty light open by E btw.

[Antrax]

Given the 1♣ opening:
1♣1-♠
1NT-2♣*
2♦**-3NT

* "Checkback stayman", asks for 3 card spade support or a 4-card heart suit
** No major fit, minimum for the 1NT rebid range
After E shows no spade support and a minimum, W knows they have two balanced hands totaling 30-31 HCP, so 3NT is the best spot.

[jillybean]

After East opens, West will probably drag him kicking and screaming to slam.
Only the faint hearted (or they've seen partners openings before) would stop short with this prime 18count.

If East passes as he should, it is a simple auction to 3N
1♠ 1N 2N(18-19) 3N

[Cascade]

shnk, on 2013-June-28, 23:46, said:

1♣ - 1♠
1NT - 3NT

No way am I looking for slam as W after E rebids 1NT.
That's a pretty light open by E btw.

You have 18 and a possible double fit, so up to 32 combined. It seems pessimistic to not look for slam.

[Cyberyeti]

carnivales, on 2013-June-28, 22:39, said:

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How would these hands be bid? Can we realize that slam is impossible and reach a sturdy NT contract?

Note that at teams, 5♣ is safer than 3N as your heart guard is vulnerable and you only have 8 top tricks.

This is a routine 1♣ opener for me, but I'd never rebid 1N, it's a 2♣ rebid, I would never do this, but you'd probably find some people who'd open 1♦ and rebid clubs.

It's difficult to suggest a beginners auction to this as I've almost forgotten how to bid this without one of several gadgets I would use.

Our non beginner's auction would be:

1♣-1♠
2♣-2♦(artificial asking)
2N(minimum, 4♦, not 3♠ or 4♥)-3♥(4SF)
3N-4♣(slam try)
5♣(not interested)

[FrancesHinden]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-June-29, 02:52, said:

Note that at teams, 5♣ is safer than 3N as your heart guard is vulnerable and you only have 8 top tricks.

It's very easy to make random comments like that, but it's not true.
3NT by West makes for certain as long as (at least) one of the following holds:
- the ace of hearts is on lead
- the J10 of hearts are on lead
- hearts are not 5-3 (and also not 6-2 with the doubleton on lead)
- a heart is not led (e.g. north has QJ10xx Jxx xxx xx)
- South has the ace of diamonds
- South has AJ10 exactly of hearts

there are also some positions where you make if you read it, e.g. when South has AJx or A10x of hearts

As you need the red suit aces to be one particular way round and hearts 5-3 even to be in danger of going off, you are at least 90% before you get going.

By contrast, 5C needs clubs not 5-0 and also needs diamonds not 5-1 and usually not 6-0. Without calculating the odds in detail, I think 3NT is better.

3NT by East is more complicated to calculate, because on a heart lead you will probably give up on a low card being led from the J10 and rise king, making any time the two aces are both on lead, or South has Axx (with or without an honour), or North has the HA and the hand with the DA has at most 4 hearts. This feels similarly good, although different.

[Cyberyeti]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-June-30, 07:40, said:

It's very easy to make random comments like that, but it's not true.
3NT by West makes for certain as long as (at least) one of the following holds:
- the ace of hearts is on lead
- the J10 of hearts are on lead
- hearts are not 5-3 (and also not 6-2 with the doubleton on lead)
- a heart is not led (e.g. north has QJ10xx Jxx xxx xx)
- South has the ace of diamonds
- South has AJ10 exactly of hearts

there are also some positions where you make if you read it, e.g. when South has AJx or A10x of hearts

As you need the red suit aces to be one particular way round and hearts 5-3 even to be in danger of going off, you are at least 90% before you get going.

By contrast, 5C needs clubs not 5-0 and also needs diamonds not 5-1 and usually not 6-0. Without calculating the odds in detail, I think 3NT is better.

3NT by East is more complicated to calculate, because on a heart lead you will probably give up on a low card being led from the J10 and rise king, making any time the two aces are both on lead, or South has Axx (with or without an honour), or North has the HA and the hand with the DA has at most 4 hearts. This feels similarly good, although different.

It was in the context of 1♣-1♠-1N so being played by E that I made the comment.

Also ♥ lead may be more probable than it should be in that S with 4♠ probably doesn't lead one, and depending on continuations S may know E doesn't have 4♥.