[xx1943]

LHO opens 2♦multi; including weak2 in major, semiforcing in minor or 20-22 NT

partner overcalls 2♠;
4NT is RKCB 1403
5 ♠ shows ♠AKQ

What now?

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You know your partner as conservative bidder.
Are you content with 6♠?
Do you gamble 7♠? How big is the danger, that East holds Jxxx in spades?

Do you have a tool to find out the spade quality?

[Cyberyeti]

Well I didn't bid 4N.

Partner's hand might be AKQxx, Kxx, J10xx, x at which point 7♦ is cold, 7♠/N live or die with the spades.

[Fluffy]

gamble 7♠? I am more confident about that grand than my 1NT openings with 17.

[lycier]

yes,best to rebid 5nt.its meanings are to ask specific king in some suit,or extra length in ♠ suit? If there is a extra length in ♠,partner will bid 7♠ in safe.

[xx1943]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-December-30, 17:46, said:

Well I didn't bid 4N.

Partner's hand might be AKQxx, Kxx, J10xx, x at which point 7♦ is cold, 7♠/N live or die with the spades.

Hmhh, interesting idea, but how do you find out how good partners diamond support is:

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What now? Where do you go, if partner holds

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[Cyberyeti]

xx1943, on 2012-December-30, 23:49, said:

Hmhh, interesting idea, but how do you find out how good partners diamond support is:

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What now? Where do you go, if partner holds

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7♦ is where you want to be on this as well and partner doesn't need J♠. The 5♠ response to Blackwood gets you out of jail to a small extent, after 5♥ you don't know what to do opposite AKxxx, KJx, J10xx, x, 6♠/N are good, but 7♦ is better than either, 7♠/N are ZP.

It's a more complicated problem if you're playing pairs, but at teams I don't mind dropping 2 IMPs if all the grands make.

[FrancesHinden]

I didn't bid 4NT because for me it's natural...

Anyway, at this point I'll bid 5NT. In theory it's a king ask, but partner is allowed to bid grand if he thinks it's making. If partner bid 7S I'll bid 7NT, otherwise I'll bid 7S.
7D might be better, but it's too late for that now and partner is very likely to hold 6 spades anyway (he's a bit short on high cards...)

[RSClyde]

Partner bid 2S red vs white? Why would I even consider not bidding 7. Partner's allowed to have the ♠J in his hand, he's also allowed to have 6 spades. It's a fair slam at absolute worst and cold at best.
As far as introducing diamonds, if partner has ♠AKQxx and ♦Jxx(x) then diamonds is safer. But partner could also have ♠AKQJx and ♦xxx and spades was safer. It's not like I really have a J ask available. Furthermore isn't it kind of importnant to RKC spades when we have the chance? I mean partner raises diamonds, now we have to work on finding the K and the Q of spades.
And as far as "partner might bid 7 on his own over 5nt." Really? With ♠AKQxxx ♥ xx ♦xx ♣xxx for his RvW 2 level overcall, partner's going to know we have 13 tricks?
However spades vs no trump is a good question. If partner shows up with the K of hearts in the K ask (unlikely), then 7nt is surely better for all of the squeeze potential even when it isn't cold. Otherwise I'll live with 7♠.

[gnasher]

RSClyde, on 2013-January-06, 11:51, said:

Partner bid 2S red vs white? Why would I even consider not bidding 7. Partner's allowed to have the ♠J in his hand, he's also allowed to have 6 spades. It's a fair slam at absolute worst and cold at best.
As far as introducing diamonds, if partner has ♠AKQxx and ♦Jxx(x) then diamonds is safer. But partner could also have ♠AKQJx and ♦xxx and spades was safer. It's not like I really have a J ask available.

If partner raises 3♦ to 4♦ he's not likely to have three low. Almost any hand with such poor diamonds would bid 3♥ or 3♠. I agree with your other objection to 3♦ though.

A furtehr problem with 3♦ is that after ... 3♦-3♥ or ...3♦-3NT it may be problematic to get spades agreed.

Quote

However spades vs no trump is a good question. If partner shows up with the K of hearts in the K ask (unlikely), then 7nt is surely better for all of the squeeze potential even when it isn't cold.

Not necessarily: opposite AKQxx Kx xx xxxx or AKQxx Kxx x xxxx 7♠ is better; opposite AKQxx Kx xxxx xx 7♦ is better.

If partner showed ♥K, I'd try 7♦ with an understanding partner. That can't be a demand to play in diamonds, because I was obviously willing to play in 6♠ opposite a no-kings reply. Partner should work out that I'm worried about the solidity of the spade suit.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2013-January-06, 12:24

[Bbradley62]

Since three different strains of grand slam have been mentioned, I'm surprised no one has asked about form of scoring. Did I miss something?

[RSClyde]

Not necessarily: opposite AKQxx Kx xx xxxx or AKQxx Kxx x xxxx 7♠ is better;
I'm not so sure on the first. You need spades to split either way. If they don't then it doesn't matter. If they do you lose to one disribution. You'd need 4-2 diamonds to go with 3-2 spades and still need RHO to have 3 clubs to kill the squeeze in 7nt, so RHO must be 2623 exactly to need to be in spades. The chance of that is less than the chance that we're playing matchpoints

I'd choose to play no trump for those hands in which spades don't work but diamonds do and we find the tricks: though those would require some minor suit honors from partner.

Maybe I'd be better off asking for the Q of clubs than kings: opposite that card 7nt looks good.

7♦ as an offer sounds ok but how good will he think my diamonds are? Won't he pass with 3 small and no spade J?

[Cyberyeti]

RSClyde, on 2013-January-06, 11:51, said:

Furthermore isn't it kind of importnant to RKC spades when we have the chance? I mean partner raises diamonds, now we have to work on finding the K and the Q of spades.

It's fine if he has the Q♠, as I pointed out, provided you can ruff 2 clubs and pitch a spade on partner's K♥, you can make 7♦ without it. Even AKxxx, Kxxx, J10x, x 7♦ is better than 6♠.

[RSClyde]

Yes I suppose so when partner shows up with the K of hearts, but when he doesn't (most likely): now what? You won't know what to do because the chance to learn of the spade Q is lost.

[Cyberyeti]

RSClyde, on 2013-January-06, 15:50, said:

Yes I suppose so when partner shows up with the K of hearts, but when he doesn't (most likely): now what? You won't know what to do because the chance to learn of the spade Q is lost.

If you play a decent scheme, you will find out which Ks he has.

eg (2♦)-2♠-3♦-4♦-4♥(KC)-4♠(1/4)-5♣(K♣/Q♦ and all keycards)-5♥/♠(I have K♥/I have K♠ but no K♥)-5N(anything else)-6♠(I have ♥K+♠K)/I have ♠AKQ)-7♦

[RSClyde]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-06, 16:30, said:

If you play a decent scheme, you will find out which Ks he has.

eg (2♦)-2♠-3♦-4♦-4♥(KC)-4♠(1/4)-5♣(K♣/Q♦ and all keycards)-5♥/♠(I have K♥/I have K♠ but no K♥)-5N(anything else)-6♠(I have ♥K+♠K)/I have ♠AKQ)-7♦

Ok I guess if you play all of that you'll get through, those bids are other things for me, but that's fine. That will work, provided of course that he doesn't just bid 3nt over 3D with his ridiculously nonslammish hand.