[SimonFa]

I had another disagreement with partner over doubling last night. He keeps telling me learned to play "Standard American" in Bermuda a few years ago and that it includes a system of doubling that I haven't heard of nor can I find any reference, so I have referred to it as the Bermuda Double.

In this system partner doubles based purely on points with no consideration of shape using what he describes as 8, 10, 12, 14. I can't get to the bottom of it but non vulnerable he doubles with 8 HCP and when vulnerable 10HCP. I'm not sure what the other two mean, we've never really got that far, which is my fault because I get exasperated as the discussion normally follows another disaster.

Has anyone come across anything like this and if so can they point me to some documentation?

As always, thanks in advance,

Simon

[Antrax]

Not to divert the discussion, but even given that he learned it from Hamman himself or whoever, if you're uncomfortable with it, why not change the method? Do you want to play it but he can't explain it well enough?

[SimonFa]

 Antrax, on 2012-October-09, 01:43, said:

Not to divert the discussion, but even given that he learned it from Hamman himself or whoever, if you're uncomfortable with it, why not change the method? Do you want to play it but he can't explain it well enough?

I would prefer to play take out doubles but he doesn't seem to be able to get his head round them and promises me he will play them and then lapses because he is always desperate to show me his points. I've just lent him my copy of Judgement at Bridge and if he still doesn't get it I've promised to have a go at his system. However if I am I would like a better understanding than he has been able to give me.

I'm also genuinely interested in understanding his system on the basis.

[Zelandakh]

It sounds like the Walrus version of negative (3rd seat) doubles mistakenly applied to second seat. Say 8/10 for a nv/vul negative double at the 2 level or 12/14 for nv/vul double at the 3 level. If he is really sure that this is to be used in second seat then it seems extremely poor - power doubles are already somewhat awkward to use and making the range start at 8 points is just asking for trouble.

[Codo]

Sorry, but get a new partner.

If you cannot understand what he is playing and he does not understand take out doubles, search soemone who fits.

Besides this: I know pleople who play doubles based on points. They do not even win a club tourney, so do not listen to your partner...

[SimonFa]

 Codo, on 2012-October-09, 03:04, said:

Sorry, but get a new partner.

If you cannot understand what he is playing and he does not understand take out doubles, search soemone who fits.

Besides this: I know pleople who play doubles based on points. They do not even win a club tourney, so do not listen to your partner...

I like to play 2/1 and its all fairly basic Acol round here and we have had some club success, as long as these types of bids don't come up, so I persevere.

[billw55]

Perhaps if you start making these absurd doubles, so that he is the one playing the hopeless contracts, maybe he will start to understand.

Or does he think these doubles are to be left in?

[32519]

Isn't this perhaps tied in with what Mike Lawrence calls "Action Doubles?" You can read all about it in his book "Double! New Meanings for an Old Bid."

[BunnyGo]

 SimonFa, on 2012-October-09, 03:27, said:

I like to play 2/1 and its all fairly basic Acol round here and we have had some club success, as long as these types of bids don't come up, so I persevere.

People can do quite well with Acol.

[ArtK78]

 SimonFa, on 2012-October-09, 01:34, said:

I had another disagreement with partner over doubling last night. He keeps telling me learned to play "Standard American" in Bermuda a few years ago and that it includes a system of doubling that I haven't heard of nor can I find any reference, so I have referred to it as the Bermuda Double.

In this system partner doubles based purely on points with no consideration of shape using what he describes as 8, 10, 12, 14. I can't get to the bottom of it but non vulnerable he doubles with 8 HCP and when vulnerable 10HCP. I'm not sure what the other two mean, we've never really got that far, which is my fault because I get exasperated as the discussion normally follows another disaster.

Has anyone come across anything like this and if so can they point me to some documentation?

As always, thanks in advance,

Simon

If you are talking about direct doubles of an opponent's opening bid, then it sounds like some sort of peculiar variation of a power double.

Does he play a 1NT overcall for takeout?

By the way, I would steer clear of this treatment.

[SimonFa]

 BunnyGo, on 2012-October-09, 07:47, said:

People can do quite well with Acol.

Yes I know and I was playing Acol with a regular partner at another club and we used to do well. I've nothing against it at all I just like to play 2/1.

[billw55]

 32519, on 2012-October-09, 07:34, said:

Isn't this perhaps tied in with what Mike Lawrence calls "Action Doubles?"

No, it isn't. Action doubles come later in the auction. Here we are discussing direct doubles of an opening bid.

Erm, well, at least I thought we were. I reread the OP and realized that this point is not really clear.

[wank]

 32519, on 2012-October-09, 07:34, said:

Isn't this perhaps tied in with what Mike Lawrence calls "Action Doubles?" You can read all about it in his book "Double! New Meanings for an Old Bid."

not at all. perhaps someone could make a long meaningless thread about them though.

[SimonFa]

 ArtK78, on 2012-October-09, 07:58, said:

If you are talking about direct doubles of an opponent's opening bid, then it sounds like some sort of peculiar variation of a power double.

Does he play a 1NT overcall for takeout?

By the way, I would steer clear of this treatment.

Yes direct double of opponent and sometimes when ops has both bid eg 1m (p) 1M X is to tell me he has opening points. I've asked what I do next without knowing shape but not really got sensible answer.


As a consequence I try to avoid all doubles.

Simon

[Zelandakh]

Simon, might I suggest the best approach might be to start a Partnership Bidding table on BBO and arrange it that your RHO is always the dealer and openes 1 of a suit and that you always have a hand suitable for this double. Partner's hand can be random. Now you can see what he regards as the correct way to advance and you can discuss anything that seems unclear from concrete examples.

[ArtK78]

 SimonFa, on 2012-October-09, 08:02, said:

Yes direct double of opponent and sometimes when ops has both bid eg 1m (p) 1M X is to tell me he has opening points. I've asked what I do next without knowing shape but not really got sensible answer.


As a consequence I try to avoid all doubles.

Simon

Avoiding all doubles seems like a sensible approach, but, if you agree to play this method, you are clearly operating against your agreed system.

Advice: Don't play it.

Power doubles are an interesting approach, but at least they show an opening bid (1NT being a weak takeout). My experience with power doubles is that they have some successes but mostly they are a negative.

The method suggested by your partner commits the partnership to enter the bidding with less than half of the deck and no known fit. The flaws of this approach are self-evident.

[SimonFa]

 Zelandakh, on 2012-October-09, 08:06, said:

Simon, might I suggest the best approach might be to start a Partnership Bidding table on BBO and arrange it that your RHO is always the dealer and openes 1 of a suit and that you always have a hand suitable for this double. Partner's hand can be random. Now you can see what he regards as the correct way to advance and you can discuss anything that seems unclear from concrete examples.

Great idea, thanks. I've just been to learn how to set them up and was surprised at how easy it was.

[Vampyr]

 wank, on 2012-October-09, 08:01, said:

not at all. perhaps someone could make a long meaningless thread about them though.

No need; I can sum it up:

Action Double: A treatment that gives partner the option of going for -790 or -800.

[daveharty]

 Vampyr, on 2012-October-10, 10:28, said:

No need; I can sum it up:

Action Double: A treatment that gives partner the option of going for -790 or -800.

Around here we call that a "Fast Food" double, i.e. "Would you like to take that out or eat it here?"