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This probably makes no sense

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 03:29



At this point of the bidding, both east and west pull their bids into their bidding boxes, but I know my godzilla partner well enough, he is thinking about bidding something. He finally bids 5.

Now East goes back to the bidding box and pulls 4 and puts it back on the table (with the pack of all bids from 1 to 4) and starts to think before doubling.

Does it make any sense that I try to if I try to accept 4 as a insufficent bid and pass it?

EDITED for better wording of what happened.
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 03:30

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-11, 03:29, said:

Does it make any sense that I try to accept 4 as a insufficent bid and pass it?

Yes, but I would definitely recommend you call the director to make sure that that is what you are in fact doing.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 03:31

no.
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#4 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 04:01

No, it makes no sense. You know that East's action wasn't intended as a 4 bid, so I can't see why you would you argue that it is one. When you left the comfort of your home and went to the bridge club, weren't you hoping for a game of bridge?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#5 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 04:04

Given the situation and the fact that East is thinking about their bid, it is clear that East has not made an insufficient bid over 5C. This is common behaviour from someone who has taken away their bidding cards before the auction finished.

But it sounds like you know that as well from the way you phrased your question. I would rule a pass by you to be a pass out of rotation subject to Law 30, and investigate an adjustment under Law 23. I would also point out correct procedure to the opponents and consider a procedural penalty for them. There is also the question of unauthorised information being passed between East and West, but it's not immediately clear how this would change the outcome of the hand.
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 05:38

This reminds me of an auction pre bidding boxes where partner produces an unexopected leap to 6. RHO furrows his brow and says in a voice somewhere between surprise and befuddlement "six clubs !?", "double" says I. This was taken as the joke it was intended as, but I've always wondered what should have happened if I'd pushed it.
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 05:40

View Postgnasher, on 2012-April-11, 04:01, said:

weren't you hoping for a game of bridge?


Not at all, but that's another story. Anyway, please don't think I want to take advantage of the situation, I just want to know the rules.
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#8 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 06:13

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-11, 05:40, said:

..., I just want to know the rules.


In the EBU, the bidding box regulations say that a call is made if withdrawn from the box with apparent intent.

If relevent in this case, the second time your opponent put 4 on the table it was not with intent to make a call, and this intent was apparent. So 4 was not a call made over 5 and there was no insufficient bid to accept.
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#9 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 08:01

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-11, 03:29, said:



At this point of the bidding, both east and west pull their bids into their bidding boxes, but I know my godzilla partner well enough, he is thinking about bidding something. He finally bids 5.

Now East goes back to the bidding box and pulls 4 and puts it back on the table (with the pack of all bids from 1 to 4) and starts to think before doubling.

Does it make any sense that I try to accept 4 as a insufficent bid and pass it?

No, it doesn't.

But it does make sense to call the TD. You tell him that you are wondering whether 4 is insufficient. You will explain what happened and ask him if 4 indeed is an insufficient bid and if so what the ruling is.

The TD will (depending on your regulations, but highly likely) say that 4 was not pulled out of the box with the intent to bid 4 and that it cannot be an insufficient bid, because it wasn't a bid. He will also tell the opponents not to remove the bidding cards before they are allowed to be removed.

Rik
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#10 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 08:42

Fluffy this isn't like you.
Hi y'all!

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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 11:00

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-11, 05:40, said:

Please don't think I want to take advantage of the situation, I just want to know the rules.

IMO, you know the rules, and you know 4D was not a bid. If someone thought you might be trying to take advantage of the situation, they would be right.

More likely, also IMO, is that you were really asking about someone else trying to accept 4D and then pass --but using "I" instead of "some person who wanted to get out of the mess he had created and avoid playing 5CX".
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#12 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 11:11

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-April-11, 11:00, said:

IMO, you know the rules, and you know 4D was not a bid. If someone thought you might be trying to take advantage of the situation, they would be right.

More likely, also IMO, is that you were really asking about someone else trying to accept 4D and then pass --but using "I" instead of "some person who wanted to get out of the mess he had created and avoid playing 5CX".


What are you talking about? The first thing to be able to try to take advantage of the situation would be to do something. Not to stay there waiting for RHO to make her legal bid and play 5 X saying typ as I did.

I will rephrase my wording in the OP, would like to think it was the souce of the confusion
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 11:20

Fluffy: we seem to be separated by a common language. I was agreeing with what you actually did, and saying you wouldn't have tried to do anything else when the bid cards were brought back out by your RHO.
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-11, 16:17

I need to improve this common language, sorry.
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